MD Vote on Question 6 - Gay Marriage

[VoX]

mar·riage

[mar-ij]

the legal or religious ceremony that formalizes the decision of two people to live as a married couple, including the accompanying social festivities.


Yes, in the Christian view you are right. However, Christianity DOES NOT own marriage. Marriage can be legal unification aswell as religious.

When you said "You just have to call it something different" I asked "Why?". I'm guessing you are opne of those idiots that think "Oh, since my religion has this everyone who does things not in my religious veiws are wrong and should have to make it explicitly different in name."

It's people like that which make me want to move to a different planet where people who wont think differently than what is shoved down their throats are executed.

I respect your religious views, but your religion does not in any way dictate how the world works.

LOL, I'm definitely not a Christian.. So, your argument there is invalid.. It's either change this definition in the webster dictionary or name it something that is a Falacy.. Like.. Same Sex Marriage. I am not opposed to the idea.. I can give a rats ass if two guys want to be miserable together.. Just a lot of people have a problem with only the Terminology... Most of us.. Do not give a rats ass.. As our fucking country has bigger fish to fry.. Like our Economy.. Or wasted funds in the middle east.. or maybe the fact that we blow too much money on defense spending.. Shit.. we spend more than the next 26 countries combined on defenses.. And 25 are allies.. "Gay Marriage" (not politically correct) isn't a big deal, and will get legalized.. Just be patient for your benefits.. Jesus. Times are changing and people need to be patient with older generations who are bigoted.. I mean.. how long before blacks had more than a 3/5th vote.. Just dont think this is important when there are starving people out there....

Definition of MARRIAGE

1
a (1) : the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law (2) : the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage <same-sex marriage> Notice how the word means two different things.. They just need to fix the definition.. Throw out both of these and just say another person...

 

[Jack]

Steel i get what your saying but the one thing i dont know if you understand is that for you to say that gay people who get married cant aslo be christians because gay marriage is a sin is a big call, i mean if they cant be christian because they're sinning by being gay and then marrying then would it not mean that anyone who has sinned cannot be a christian? im pretty sure the bible says "for we all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of god." i mean if a married gay couple cant be christian than i guess a married couple that are abusive cant be christian and if they cant be christian i guess a married couple that maybe blasphemes once in a while cant be christian. The bible is very clear about all sin being equal and no man being more worthy than another, the only reason that people feel that gay marriage is a problem is because of how 'visible' i guess the sin of homosexuality is, i mean its much harder for a homosexual to hide their sin from the world than say an alcoholic or a porn addict or even someone who would rather watch a football game than go to church, because putting things before god is also a sin. Unless the NASB is written to have an underlying anti gay message you should just remember that no one has less of a right to be a christian than anyone else.

OT im still ok with gay marriage. lol

 

[TheDude]

I think Jack has a point there, too.

Christians lets murderers be Christians and ask for forgiveness.

Why not homosexuals?
Why not married homosexuals?


Now let me say this.
In Christianity's defense!
There are LOTS of churches and congregations that wholly accept homosexuals and same-sex-couples. The one I was raised as a member of does that, officially. Some of the members do NOT approve, but most of the members do. However, there are still a lot of Christian groups who openly shun homosexuals.

 

[SteelHorse]

Let me explain to you something if i may. Sin is an act against God. And no sinner who has not repented of their sin and done their best to rid themselves of it can enter into heaven. Homosexuals are living in continuous sin and they typically do not care. That is the difference. Again i am just stating what the bible says. The difference in what christians do is their actions. Christians acknowledge they are sinners and ask for God's forgiveness. And if you are truly rooted in Christ and have a good relationship with Him you will not continue in the sin of the world.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.


Let me also say this, I am not a very good christian so many times i fail in all things. AKA I do not represent Christ very well.

 

[TheDude]

So I pose the question again,

if this part of the bible is to be taken so literally,

Why do we not follow the dictates of the rest of the bible literally?
Are you saying that EVERY part of the bible should be followed strictly word for word?
Or are there certain parts that should be followed, and certain parts that are more allegorical or metaphorical in nature? If so, who decides which parts are to be taken literally? And why?
Or are we just supposed to interpret the bible to better ourselves as individuals? Does this make it up to us to decided what morality is until we are judged?

These are the kind of questions this brings to mind.

 

[SteelHorse]

So I pose the question again,

if this part of the bible is to be taken so literally,

Why do we not follow the dictates of the rest of the bible literally?
Are you saying that EVERY part of the bible should be followed strictly word for word?
Or are there certain parts that should be followed, and certain parts that are more allegorical or metaphorical in nature? If so, who decides which parts are to be taken literally? And why?
Or are we just supposed to interpret the bible to better ourselves as individuals? Does this make it up to us to decided what morality is until we are judged?

These are the kind of questions this brings to mind.

I think a lot of it has to do with the way individuals are raised. Believe what you want i personally have nothing against gays i'm jst quoting what the bible says and was trying to answer the question about why so many people have problems with legalizing same-sex-marriage.

 

[Jack]

i just think,no matter what it says in the bible, no matter what you think of yourself or others, only god can judge who is worthy, maybe leave it at that.

 

[SteelHorse]

i just think,no matter what it says in the bible, no matter what you think of yourself or others, only god can judge who is worthy, maybe leave it at that.

That is your own personal opinion. May not be everyones. And everyone should respect the honest and thought through opinions of others...in my opinion, lol.

 

[Jack]

well, actually, its in the bible, you know "dont try to remove the speck from your brothers eye until you've removed the plank from your own eye". like, dont judge others until your pefect enough to do so. Sure the bible had that list of sins when talking about who can't enter heaven, but that doesnt mean they are the only sins that are keeping you separated from god. you are entitled to your opinion, im just saying be careful what you base your opinion on, because when you take something out of context the meaning can change.

 

[NickHouston]

I go back to what I said:

If God made each and every one of us how we are then how would someone being created as a homosexual be a sin?

If God loves all creations, wouldn't he love Homosexuals?

If God frowns upon Homosexuals, why would he forgive murderers, child molesters and rapists and just send homosexuals to hell?

Did God say "Love thine neighbor as you would love thine self(except homosexuals)?

Do we still feel that women are property and not functional people in society?

Our times have changed a great amount since the Bible was written. The bible tells mostly of beliefs from 2000 years ago. Our society accepts people for who they are. Our government is not run by the church. We have more technology.

If more Christians learned to not take the bible and say "this dictates how we will live" and instead say "we will live by the morals taught in this book" then we would have equality amoung men and women, less hate clouding our society, etc.

 

[Nikon]

I go back to what I said:

If God made each and every one of us how we are then how would someone being created as a homosexual be a sin?

People aren't born as gays. That is a flat out lie to try and justify homosexuality and to enslave gays who want to stop into thinking they can't because that's "just the way they are". There is absolutely no proof for such a belief. God does not create imperfect things.

If God loves all creations, wouldn't he love Homosexuals?

He does. But God also cannot allow sin into heaven. I'm sure most, if not all of you have heard John 3:16 at least once in your life.

If God frowns upon Homosexuals, why would he forgive murderers, child molesters and rapists and just send homosexuals to hell?

God doesn't just send homosexuals to hell. God can redeem anyone if they accept him. To say that God cannot save a homosexual is limiting his power of forgiveness which knows NO limits. God could have forgiven even Hitler if he would have asked for it.

Can gays go to heaven? Yes and No, because when one accepts Jesus Christ as their savior, change will be brought out in their life by God and they will turn from their homosexuality and will no longer be gay, lesbian or whatever. Now, if someone claims to be a Christian but continues in their practice of homosexuality, then they probably never truly accepted Christ in the first place and they would not go to heaven if they died.

If more Christians learned to not take the bible and say "this dictates how we will live" and instead say "we will live by the morals taught in this book" then we would have equality among men and women, less hate clouding our society, etc.

But also, if more people lived by the moral standards of the Bible, we would not be having this discussion.

 

[Ethan]

What do you guys think about this?

"Religion should control marriage, while the state should control civil unions."

 

[NickHouston]

People aren't born as gays. That is a flat out lie to try and justify homosexuality and to enslave gays who want to stop into thinking they can't because that's "just the way they are". There is absolutely no proof for such a belief. God does not create imperfect things.



He does. But God also cannot allow sin into heaven. I'm sure most, if not all of you have heard John 3:16 at least once in your life.



God doesn't just send homosexuals to hell. God can redeem anyone if they accept him. To say that God cannot save a homosexual is limiting his power of forgiveness which knows NO limits. God could have forgiven even Hitler if he would have asked for it.

Can gays go to heaven? Yes and No, because when one accepts Jesus Christ as their savior, change will be brought out in their life by God and they will turn from their homosexuality and will no longer be gay, lesbian or whatever. Now, if someone claims to be a Christian but continues in their practice of homosexuality, then they probably never truly accepted Christ in the first place and they would not go to heaven if they died.



But also, if more people lived by the moral standards of the Bible, we would not be having this discussion.

The ingorance in your post is overwhelming.

You say there is no proof that people are born gay:

Where is the proof that all people are born straight?

You say homosexuality is sin:

I think judging others when God says to "Love thy neighbor" is a sin.

You say that God forgives anyone who accepts them:

Assuming homosexuality is a sin, there are many homosexuals who accept God.

If you lived by the moral standards of the bible, you would not be condemning homosexuals.

they will turn from their homosexuality and will no longer be gay, lesbian or whatever. Now, if someone claims to be a Christian but continues in their practice of homosexuality, then they probably never truly accepted Christ in the first place and they would not go to heaven if they died.

Who the hell are you to say something like this? Do you really think that because you are straight then you are better than gay people? Its people like this that deserve Hell. You do not respect your fellow man, you do not accept other people's preferences, you do not truly accept your own religion until you can accept everyone around you and not say that they are sinners just because they do something you don't like.

Do I like murderers and rapists? No. Do I accept them? Yes. Why? Because they are here for a reason. If there were no crime, there would be no such thing as good.

If there were no such thing as gay, there would be no straight people.


Nikon, I'm sorry but you should drop your "Holier than thou" attitude before whatever God you believe in Strikes you down right here and now. You sure as hell don't believe in a Christian God because Christians are supposed to love everyone, not who a 2000 year old book written by humans tells them too.

 

[Kacey]

I'm pretty sure you can guess my stance on this. Also, New York was the first to legalize gay marriage.

Being gay myself, I have never understood why someone would want to take away my rights from me. What makes me a second class citizen?

Ask people who are against it. I guarantee that 1/3rd will say 'the bible', 1/3rd will say 'It's just unnatural' and the last 1/3rd will say 'It's immoral!'

Bullshit, ignorant claims, all of them.

 

[SteelHorse]

Nick lets try and keep this a discussion and not an argument by keeping things like how ignorant one another are because of things some of have read and felt in our hearts is true out of it.

Jack i feel that i am frustrating you and i don't mean to. The things i am writing is like i said how i was raised. Let me tell you a little about how my parents live. They are much better christians than i am. After my parents got married and became christians they have tried their best to live a very christian and bible based life. They they go to church every week and all they do right now is work in mission groups to help other people see the love of Jesus Christ. They also raised their kids (me) to try and do the same. Because of this, I do my best to read my bible every day and after that pray to God to help me to apply what i just read to my heart so that i may become more like Him. And if you read the bible you should start to hate the things that God hates, sin. Homosexuality in the bible is considered a sin. I have posted 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 above and if you want you can read Romans 1:26-32 which is another verse that is very clear in my opinion about homosexuality being a sin.

You keep saying not to judge. I do my best not to judge, and there is a verse in the bible about that. Matthew 7:1, do not judge, lest you be judged. I don't want to judge "people" but i can recognize sin. To me the act of judging is like me saying, well i would never do something like that because i'm a better person. I never do that because i know i an a sinner and am very weak. I am just as capable to commit murder or any other sin as the next person is. As a christian it is my duty to be able to see sin and stay away from it, according to the bible. I separate the sin and the person. Christians are called to love all people no matter what they do. But we are not called to love the sins of some people. I have a good friend that is a homosexual and i love her, but i do not love the sin that i feel she is in. Also i have a muslim friend. I do not hate him for believing in Islam. But i do hate the sin he is in believing in Islam. In case that was confusing let me put it this way. I love muslims and homosexuals. I do not however love homosexuality or Islam. There is the person and then there is the sin. So when you caution me Jack i appreciate your concern. Because it is a thing in which i do not want to do, and do my best not to do.

 

[DamageINC]

People aren't born as gays. That is a flat out lie to try and justify homosexuality and to enslave gays who want to stop into thinking they can't because that's "just the way they are". There is absolutely no proof for such a belief. God does not create imperfect things.

I'm sorry, but that's one of the most ignorant things i've ever read. In fact, your whole post is so beyond ignorant and prepostourous i have no real words for it.

You actually think when people hit puberty and start becoming sexually aware they sit down, ponder what sex they want to be attracted to and then decide, well i guess ill be gay. If you actually believe that you're incredibly jaded and walking around with huge blinders on. We don't choose the things we like/are in many cases. Do we choose what food we like? Or do we just taste something and either like it or don't like it. It's not a conscious choice, it's how we are. Why would ANYONE conciously choose to be gay. To be hated on and judged by people like you? Utterly ridiculous.

"There is no proof for such a belief"

Guess what buddy, there is no proof god exists either. Because YOU think being gay is a sin, doesn't make it so. Because it's written in a book , doesn't make it SO. Strange concept i know.

I'm sorry, but people like you are the ones who give religion a bad name IMO.

I choose to take people as they are, not how some book or some teachings or religions created by MAN tells me to. But by all means, continue with your hateful judgments of people because your god tells you to.



Sorry if i flamed or w/e. but some things i can't hold back on. Quite frankly, your views disgust me.

 

[Kacey]

I'm sorry, but that's one of the most ignorant things i've ever read. In fact, your whole post is so beyond ignorant and prepostourous i have no real words for it.

You actually think when people hit puberty and becoming sexually aware they sit down, ponder what sex they want to be attracted to and then decide, well i guess ill be gay. If you actually believe that you're incredibly jaded and walking around with huge blinders on. We don't choose the things we like/are in many cases. Do we choose what food we like? Or do we just taste something and either like it or don't like it. It's not a conscious choice, it's how we are. Why would ANYONE conciously choose to be gay. To be hated on and judged by people like you? Utterly ridiculous.

"There is no proof for such a belief"

Guess what buddy, there is no proof god exists either.

I'm sorry, but people like you are the ones who give religion a bad name IMO.

Sorry if i flamed or w/e. but some things i can't hold back on.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

 

[SteelHorse]

Quite frankly, your views disgust me.

I'm srry if I disgust you. But I cannot change the way in which I was raised to think and now hold in my heart.

 

[DamageINC]

That was in response to Nikon's post.

 

[SteelHorse]

Oh lol my bad. Srry.