MD Vote on Question 6 - Gay Marriage

[The Moment]

+1 Houston. If I had likes to give, you'd get one.

I think gay marriage is not something that the church needs to be involved in. If the church does not like it, they can make their stand. However, church and state need to be separated, as they are, to the point where the church's opinion does not necessarily inhibit the state's actions. The government is the law of the land, and I am to accept it as such.

 

[TheDude]

I know this is OLD.. But our country is not founded on a religion. So, I have no idea why we would argue anything to do with Churches and Law.. Outside of the fact that they DO marriages there..

Also, we do not define our English language by what the Bible says.. As the Bible was translated x amount of times, and could have been changed any time to fit different meanings.. So, it is easy to take the New International Version, or the King James Version, lightly.

The United States is not affiliated with any religion. Therefore, why the fuck are these religions brought up in every debate when it comes to a "moral" issue? (I blame the misleading Politicians who say this is a Christian country... Stupid McCain)

Actually, all the stuff to do with these marriages happen in capitol buildings, not churches.

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I don't know. I beleive that the US was founded on Christian principals.

As people became connect with each other, those principals started going away in order to satisfy everyone in this free country.

Being Christian, you can imagine what this stuff does. Hopefully, it will just pass. If not now, then it will soon. It's not worth the fight.

Pretty sure there are plenty other philosophers of morality that came before the bible was even written. While you may claim that Christianity has great morals, it helps the world, and it is the one true religion for yourself, you simply cannot claim to own the rights to morality itself. And lemme tell you how much Christianity has fked with politics in a BAD way in the name of christianity.

It's way more complex than the way you have it pictured here.

 

[VoX]

I know I left out that they are just one option of a place to get married.. I'm just sick of people thinking our country is Christian.. our founding fathers started it isn't, and they remind you over and over that we are founded on basic morals, religious freedoms, and the fact that we are all created equal..

It's this kind of stuff that makes me not even want to be affiliated with churches. It's a community that doesn't question anything from the inside but everything on the outside. Sheep.every time I questioned their reasoning they just say how infallible the TRANSLATED bible is and their denominations interpretation means. Also, they seem to almost all argue that we are a Christian nation. So stupid
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[517Houston]

We are a nation of mutts..

 

[SteelHorse]

And lemme tell you how much Christianity has fked with politics in a BAD way in the name of christianity.

Maybe you were trying to say this i dunno. But let me say this one thing. Christianity gets a bad name a lot because of so called "christians doing things in the name of Christ" as the name implies. However if you are a true christian you will not be "fking" with anyone. Many christians forget what they are supposed to be doing and get off on major rabbit trails and miss totally what they are here for, showing love and compassion to their neighbors, which is human kind in general. So if you are "fking" with politics then you are not representing Jesus Christ and therefore not acting as a christian should. I don't care what "christians" believe is right or wrong. As a "christian" we are called to love everyone. We are however not called to love the actions of people that are out from under the bible's teachings. Also, this if you are a christian that believes that the bible is the inherent word of God.

I think personally, that if a gay couple wants to get married, let them. But I do not believe that they can be christians. To me the bible is clear on that. But this even depends on what version of bible you read.

 

[NickHouston]

Maybe you were trying to say this i dunno. But let me say this one thing. Christianity gets a bad name a lot because of so called "christians doing things in the name of Christ" as the name implies. However if you are a true christian you will not be "fking" with anyone. Many christians forget what they are supposed to be doing and get off on major rabbit trails and miss totally what they are here for, showing love and compassion to their neighbors, which is human kind in general. So if you are "fking" with politics then you are not representing Jesus Christ and therefore not acting as a christian should. I don't care what "christians" believe is right or wrong. As a "christian" we are called to love everyone. We are however not called to love the actions of people that are out from under the bible's teachings. Also, this if you are a christian that believes that the bible is the inherent word of God.

I think personally, that if a gay couple wants to get married, let them. But I do not believe that they can be christians. To me the bible is clear on that. But this even depends on what version of bible you read.

I see where you are coming from Steel. But banning Gays from Christianity also gives Christians a bad name. I do like how you said they should be able to marry, most Christians have the "holier than thou" attitude and just condemn gay people and anyone else who goes against Christian teachings.

I have gone to a catholic school and read parts of the bible. In our school's version it said marriage is between two people. Not man and woman specifically. I thought that one sentence was great because I, having a bunch of gay and lesbian friends, thought they could be accepted in the church just as we straight people are. I was soon dissapointed to find that our school had an altered version of the bible made for schools in order to teach acceptance. I still find it upsetting that the true Christian bibles do not teach to accept one another but to condemn each other based merely on sexual preference, which is none of the church's or anyone else's business in the first place.

 

[Ethan]

Well, it's just how the Bible was written. This country was founded on moral principals as well as Christian principals, most of which have gone way. What else would you expect in a melting pot of so many different cultures?
Either situation, none of us were alive back then to know exactly how life was like. We just have the history books, and for modern culture, those principals seem radical and outdated.

There is no solution for the constant war between religon and politics. Maybe if people would start living like the New Testament, the hate towards Christians would go away. That will never be possible though. Luckily I have my local church.

While I'm okay with gays being able to marry, I do not support it, if that makes some sense. That is my Christian view. I stand by the Bible no matter. I try not to discriminate. There it goes.

All in all, I agree with Houston's last statement.

 

[NickHouston]

I'd just like to add on to my last post that the bible says all men are created equally and should be treated equally.

The bible does NOT say "Treat others the way you would like to be treated(unless gay, different race, different religion etc.)"

 

[Bambi]

We recently had this vote in the UK. Slightly different situation being as we already had civil partnerships (enforcing the same legal rights as a marriage), but nonetheless I had a little celebration when Parliament passed it. It was actually passed with Labour/Conservative/Lib-Dem support (our three major parties). Say yes to equality for all!

 

[SteelHorse]

Nice post Ethan

But banning Gays from Christianity also gives Christians a bad name.

I as a person would agree with you, Nick. However that is what my Bible says which is a NASB translation. It says it in Romans I believe that gay marriage is a sin. There is nothing that i can do about that. Most people that are christians think they could do a better job at being a god than Christ is doing. I would love to change many things in the bible and in the world. But as a christian it is my duty to submit to His authority and love Him with all my heart mind and soul. And the best way to do that is through applying the scriptures of the bible, and through prayer.

It is hard for me also, Nick, to think about gay marriage because of the fact that all the gay people that i have meat have been great people. But neither you nor I can change what the Bible says. And again this is only if you believe the Bible has any credit whatsoever.

 

[VoX]

Okay. Maybe I should clarify. Defining marriage as two of the same sex is wrong by definition, but the problem is having the same rights as a married (man n woman joined) couple. Which is fine with me. You just have to call it something different. It's not discrimination is terminology.

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[SteelHorse]

Defining marriage as two of the same sex is wrong by definition

There is marriage. Then there is same-sex-marriage.

You may say in your opinion that the definition of marriage can go either way. But in the Bible (nasb) it is very clear that you cannot be united under God's authority and be considered married.

And why am i continually taking this to the Bible you ask? What does this have to do with it?
The United States was, like it or not, founded on "christian" principles. And with those principles a strong sense of "family". And so you could not have a biblical family if you were in a gay relationship. Therefore it was frowned upon. So humans being conservative at heart (humans don't like change) have held onto those beliefs since then.

 

[NickHouston]

Defining marriage as two of the same sex is wrong by definition, but the problem is having the same rights as a married (man n woman joined) couple. Which is fine with me. You just have to call it something different. It's not discrimination is terminology.

mar·riage

[mar-ij]

the legal or religious ceremony that formalizes the decision of two people to live as a married couple, including the accompanying social festivities.


Yes, in the Christian view you are right. However, Christianity DOES NOT own marriage. Marriage can be legal unification aswell as religious.

When you said "You just have to call it something different" I asked "Why?". I'm guessing you are opne of those idiots that think "Oh, since my religion has this everyone who does things not in my religious veiws are wrong and should have to make it explicitly different in name."

It's people like that which make me want to move to a different planet where people who wont think differently than what is shoved down their throats are executed.

I respect your religious views, but your religion does not in any way dictate how the world works.

 

[TheDude]

Maybe you were trying to say this i dunno. But let me say this one thing. Christianity gets a bad name a lot because of so called "christians doing things in the name of Christ" as the name implies. However if you are a true christian you will not be "fking" with anyone. Many christians forget what they are supposed to be doing and get off on major rabbit trails and miss totally what they are here for, showing love and compassion to their neighbors, which is human kind in general. So if you are "fking" with politics then you are not representing Jesus Christ and therefore not acting as a christian should. I don't care what "christians" believe is right or wrong. As a "christian" we are called to love everyone. We are however not called to love the actions of people that are out from under the bible's teachings. Also, this if you are a christian that believes that the bible is the inherent word of God.

I think personally, that if a gay couple wants to get married, let them. But I do not believe that they can be christians. To me the bible is clear on that. But this even depends on what version of bible you read.

True, but you're also talking about the complete ideal, which is almost never a reality. Religion, in general, has been at the root of many terrible things in the world. I don't see why we can't teach morality without also teaching the Bible. Studying the Bible is super important, in my opinion. Christianity is an extremely important part of human history. Even hardcore atheists have to admit that.

The thing to me is this:
If other people want to do things in our free country that have no effect on you or society in a negative way (or at all), then let them do it.
Lots of Christian organizations are spending money specifically to prevent this.
How can one justify spending money and lobbying specifically to deny people rights, and call it love?
Not logically... that's for sure.

I personally would have a problem with any of these marriage laws if they infringed on the rights of the church. But they don't.
DOMA's major purpose was to deny the same tax exemptions and benefits to same-sex married couples that hetero married couples get. How does that represent the bible, loving everyone, our principles values as a nation, or bettering society?

I think the opposition to gay marriage has a hard time arguing. The root of their argument is in ideology and their morals (right or wrong). Therefore, they would have to argue that everyone should have the same ideology or morals. That simply goes against democracy, which happens to be THE principle our nation was founded on.


I think Christianity is a good thing. It can do very good things for people and the world.

I don't think some of the Christian organizations out there are doing the best things.

But a lot are, as well.
This is why I'm not making blanket statements.

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There is marriage. Then there is same-sex-marriage.

You may say in your opinion that the definition of marriage can go either way. But in the Bible (nasb) it is very clear that you cannot be united under God's authority and be considered married.

And why am i continually taking this to the Bible you ask? What does this have to do with it?
The United States was, like it or not, founded on "christian" principles. And with those principles a strong sense of "family". And so you could not have a biblical family if you were in a gay relationship. Therefore it was frowned upon. So humans being conservative at heart (humans don't like change) have held onto those beliefs since then.

The notion that this nation was founded on the family structure as depicted in the bible is quite absurd.
I think basically you are saying, "The majority of people in the United States were Christians, and society reflected that at the time." This is absolutely true. Homosexuality was widely frowned upon at the time, and indeed gays were even tortured and killed.

On one hand, you'll argue that the bible's definition of marriage needs to be taken word for word. Man and woman. God does NOT approve of gays.

how about when we move to the bible's treatment of women.

Shall we follow that so strictly?


Did you not also think that the Bible was also a product of its time and age? It was written by people, after all.

 

[ManuelBook]

Just let them get married.

I support.

 

[NickHouston]

I just wanna know something.

God makes each and every person. He loves them for who they are and they are made in his image. He knows how each and every person is going to act, look like and do. He hates homosexuals though. He loves his creation buts hates his creation. Makes sense I guess.

 

[The Moment]

^Nick hit the nail on the head. In class today, we read an article about a United States Senator, a conservative mind you, who supports Gay marriage. He said that it deprives homosexuals of their own rights as AMECIAN Citizens. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are guaranteed under the Declaration of Independence.

I don't see those rights being upheld without gay marriage being allowed.

 

[theGenius]

well i think all these gayquestions about if homosexuality should be legal or gay marrige etc. have a very simple answer to me, vote about it, just like they did. if the majority votes yes, than yes it is, and if no, than no.
since this is the democratic way to find out if homosexuality is welcome in an area. my vote would go pro gays, however i dont have a vote:/

 

[TheDude]

I just don't see a logical argument against gay marriage.

Socially banning gay marriage sucks.

Sucks public relations.

Sucks for politicians who have to deal with the hate.

Sucks for couples trying to make shit work with kids after gay parents die.

Sucks for the IRS trying to figure out how the hell to deal with taxes.


Just sucks. In general.
Social science and psychology also will tell you how much it sucks.


So just make it freaking legal.
If it's such a big deal, the hardcore christians can go get in their bunkers and wait for doomsday.

 

[The Moment]

It really does. If America is not going to stick 100% to the original founding ideals, which it hasn't, not just in this subject, but tons of other, then the government has no reason to ban it.


Equality for all is to be sought.