Ukraine
- Thread starter MikeK
- Start date
Which post did you respond to?
Lol which of the two posts? The one on Veneto poll? Or my expectation of 75% per cent in Crimea?
Notice that they didn't have any armed Russians in there 
Actually, that one most likely is not a real number.
I mean, it's not made up, but that was an online vote = certain groups of people did not vote and the real result might have been different. On the other side, Italy as a country was never united since Roman times and Veneto, like Catalonia, "donates" most of their tax (51 of 71 billion euros, if I remember the numbers right) to the southern parts. In return, they get southern mafia and politics.
I'd vote yes if I lived in Veneto.
Actually, that one most likely is not a real number.
I mean, it's not made up, but that was an online vote = certain groups of people did not vote and the real result might have been different. On the other side, Italy as a country was never united since Roman times and Veneto, like Catalonia, "donates" most of their tax (51 of 71 billion euros, if I remember the numbers right) to the southern parts. In return, they get southern mafia and politics.
I'd vote yes if I lived in Veneto.
@Joonikko
I checked the links to the polls.
The first one (not the one stated by Tymopsheenko but the next one) was held in Ukraine as a whole, not in Crimea.
The second one (a link in russian) had more options, they could have voted for more powers as a part of Ukraine (over 25%) and refrain from voting - that was also recorded (about 10%).
So none of the polls mentioned in the article are any close to the real poll that was held.
I checked the links to the polls.
The first one (not the one stated by Tymopsheenko but the next one) was held in Ukraine as a whole, not in Crimea.
The second one (a link in russian) had more options, they could have voted for more powers as a part of Ukraine (over 25%) and refrain from voting - that was also recorded (about 10%).
So none of the polls mentioned in the article are any close to the real poll that was held.
Check your history mike - your Cyprus stuff is total BS. The British Bases on Cyprus have been there since 1960, are still there and as they are Sovereign territory, we are the only people who pay for them.
The border is where it is because the Turks, who invaded in 1974, did not want a war with the UK which they would likely have lost. To have gone any further would have meant over running Dhekelia. The other base is actually about 60 miles away. Guess you need to check your geography too.
The border is where it is because the Turks, who invaded in 1974, did not want a war with the UK which they would likely have lost. To have gone any further would have meant over running Dhekelia. The other base is actually about 60 miles away. Guess you need to check your geography too.
That is how it could have been said without being inflammatory. Still quite informative
The bases are not paid rent for since the occupation.
CyprusMail said:
If I forgot that one of the bases is not on the border, it doesn't change anything.
If you start this personal nonsense, my geography is fine, too. I'm 17 and I've been to 25 countries (including Cyprus). What about you?
I'm older than mike? damnnn that makes me feel terrible cause i can't remember where Cyprus is
So I was about to be classic TheDude and be all like in your face:
"It's not possible to know everything about geography and also know about other stuff."
"That's just like your opinion, man"
And when I say "I was about to be classic the dude", in that sense, I mean:
But then I was thinking:
I don't know about that shit. We are digitizing the genome. We could supercraft humans. On the way there, we could probably expect decent proficiency at global geography and history. The brain is pretty powerful.
What do I know about that??? Not much.
Just sayin'
"It's not possible to know everything about geography and also know about other stuff."
"That's just like your opinion, man"
And when I say "I was about to be classic the dude", in that sense, I mean:
But then I was thinking:
I don't know about that shit. We are digitizing the genome. We could supercraft humans. On the way there, we could probably expect decent proficiency at global geography and history. The brain is pretty powerful.
What do I know about that??? Not much.
Just sayin'
so how has the situation devoloped?
well, you got pro russian protesters in donestsk, kharkov and lugansk, taking over goverment buildings declaring independing republics in defiance of the coupappointed goverment in kiev. they want to hold a crimean style referendum to join russia by 11th maj.
how does kiev react, do they respect the wish for the referendum, nope, they sent in the TANKS, in less then 10 hours they are going to be in donetsk. the kiev set an ultimatum to get out in that time to protesters in donetsk. so this is what happens when russia doenst sent in the troops.
can u imagin the shitstorm if yanukovich had sent in the tanks? the outrage of the international community? now...nothing. wtf? no sanctions, not even a warning from mister obama, and no coverage on bbc and cnn about it. fucking great.
siriously, this kind of shit could spark ww3, and its gonna be fought in europe, fucking great, im getting really pissed at the us goverment, is nato expansion really that fucking important? you got all western european contries in your pocket, my germany isnt taking its own decicions since fucking merkel is in place, fine fine fine, im not even protesting, just let me live in peace ffs, i dont want another ww in europe.
what the fuck they think gonna happen when they start massacaring people in donetsk?
this is utter bullshit, but nope, new goverment in kiev has the eternal support of nato, no matter what, they really want that nato base in the black sea next to russia dont they? why the U.S not sent 3 more warships to the blacksee and see if that calms shit down. cmon keep fucking pushing it and its gonna get ugly. but i guess thats what they want.
so fucking tired of politicians.
well, you got pro russian protesters in donestsk, kharkov and lugansk, taking over goverment buildings declaring independing republics in defiance of the coupappointed goverment in kiev. they want to hold a crimean style referendum to join russia by 11th maj.
how does kiev react, do they respect the wish for the referendum, nope, they sent in the TANKS, in less then 10 hours they are going to be in donetsk. the kiev set an ultimatum to get out in that time to protesters in donetsk. so this is what happens when russia doenst sent in the troops.
can u imagin the shitstorm if yanukovich had sent in the tanks? the outrage of the international community? now...nothing. wtf? no sanctions, not even a warning from mister obama, and no coverage on bbc and cnn about it. fucking great.
siriously, this kind of shit could spark ww3, and its gonna be fought in europe, fucking great, im getting really pissed at the us goverment, is nato expansion really that fucking important? you got all western european contries in your pocket, my germany isnt taking its own decicions since fucking merkel is in place, fine fine fine, im not even protesting, just let me live in peace ffs, i dont want another ww in europe.
what the fuck they think gonna happen when they start massacaring people in donetsk?
this is utter bullshit, but nope, new goverment in kiev has the eternal support of nato, no matter what, they really want that nato base in the black sea next to russia dont they? why the U.S not sent 3 more warships to the blacksee and see if that calms shit down. cmon keep fucking pushing it and its gonna get ugly. but i guess thats what they want.
so fucking tired of politicians.
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Me too.
But remember, on the one hand, Russians condemned any armed takeover of anything, whether really armed or not, and then here we are.....
It's all a mess.
Please do not forget... Russia is not the little guy here. At all. No one is picking on Russia. Russia is quite the big dog.
But remember, on the one hand, Russians condemned any armed takeover of anything, whether really armed or not, and then here we are.....
It's all a mess.
Please do not forget... Russia is not the little guy here. At all. No one is picking on Russia. Russia is quite the big dog.
no, certainly not the little dog, yet the way i see it this is becoming more and more of a black and white issue, and russia seems to be in the right this time. just look at the events:
1. while russia puts on a good face during the olypics, the u.s. steer up a coup in kiev when they know that putin cant react since russia was the eye of attention during this time. so russia never asked for any of this, it is clear who planned this.
2 .a democraticly elected goverment gets overthrown, and has full support of u.s.
3. east of the contry who had no say in the establishment of the new goverment protests.
4. russia moves troops into crimea and hosts referendum, referendum is condemmed illigal, observers refuse to come. the observers that did come anyway all said during the referendum there were no troops and the vote was fair.
5. crimeans seem happy and there is no blood spilled.
6.u.s condems russia about its move calling it all illigal not reconizing the referendum, while in full support of the coupimposed goverment in kiev. sanctions are imposed and tensions are raised
7.the unelected goverment of kiev starts signing a bunch of contract with the eu and etc. and changing laws and replacing goverment staff at record speeds. all without the peoples consent.
8.the peoples republic of denetsk kharkov and lugansk are declared in protest of events in kiev, a democratic referendum is called for.
9. kiev sent in the tanks, and the U.S sents 3 warships to black sea close to the russian harbor.
10. to be continued
and you are forgetting one major fact dude, russia is in europe, they are our neighbors, they are well aware of the consequenses of a civil war in ukraine, if not a even bigger european war. russia certainly does not want a civil war along its border that destabilizes a contry that so many of its gaspipelines run thru. it would destabilize russia aswell.
in the end the one who profits from a unstable ukraine is the U.S. it weakens russia, and makes europe more dependend on nato and alternative gas resources.
the U.S is oversees, this conflict is far from home to you. russia an europe are in the middle of it, and non has anything to gain from it.
the way i see it this is an attemp by the U.S to force a growing russia in its knees prematurly.
i rest my case, i hope you understand me now, may europe remain in peace pls.
So much has happened since I last commented on here but to be brief, fucking Obama needs to stop pushing sanctions. I usually read up on the perspective of both sides when I follow global issues and Obama furthering sanctions against Russia is not helping. Reversing all those sanctions down the road is not going to be easy and it could potentially start a trade war which will affect nations globally.
Also you can see how Obama actions shows how little he understands and sees from the perspective of Putin. Obama wasn't on Russian soil when the Soviet Union collapsed which is why he is unable to fathom how traumatic of an experience it was for Russia. I read a psychology article of how the fall of Soviet Union caused several generations of Russians to develop post traumatic stress disorder following the event. It was THAT traumatic to those several hundred thousands of Russians. If Obama did understand Putin, he would see how Putin feels wronged and is only taking back what should have been rightfully Russia's in the first place. He wouldn't continue pushing sanctions against Russia which will only bite U.S. back in the ass in the long haul.
And I can't remember who's post it was but I remember reading a post where someone wrote that it could potentially start WW3. Actually, I don't see that happening. U.S. and Russia is smarter than that following events such as the Cuban missile crisis in 1962 and Kosovo War in 1999. When it does happen, we're all pretty much dead and each country with a nuclear weapon knows it.
Also you can see how Obama actions shows how little he understands and sees from the perspective of Putin. Obama wasn't on Russian soil when the Soviet Union collapsed which is why he is unable to fathom how traumatic of an experience it was for Russia. I read a psychology article of how the fall of Soviet Union caused several generations of Russians to develop post traumatic stress disorder following the event. It was THAT traumatic to those several hundred thousands of Russians. If Obama did understand Putin, he would see how Putin feels wronged and is only taking back what should have been rightfully Russia's in the first place. He wouldn't continue pushing sanctions against Russia which will only bite U.S. back in the ass in the long haul.
And I can't remember who's post it was but I remember reading a post where someone wrote that it could potentially start WW3. Actually, I don't see that happening. U.S. and Russia is smarter than that following events such as the Cuban missile crisis in 1962 and Kosovo War in 1999. When it does happen, we're all pretty much dead and each country with a nuclear weapon knows it.
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ofcourse ukraine is importand to the U.S, even more then everxthing in the middle east, read my last post and you will understand why.
ups sry, i replied to an old post by the dude written on page 1 lol[DOUBLEPOST=1397194101][/DOUBLEPOST]@Gage this is not about some stupid sanctions anymore, ukraine is on the edge of civil war, and all of europe and maybe the world might be dragged in. it all depends on how the ukrainien army acts in donetsk today.
ups sry, i replied to an old post by the dude written on page 1 lol[DOUBLEPOST=1397194101][/DOUBLEPOST]@Gage this is not about some stupid sanctions anymore, ukraine is on the edge of civil war, and all of europe and maybe the world might be dragged in. it all depends on how the ukrainien army acts in donetsk today.
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@theGenius sanctions has everything to do with why the world will get dragged in. Trade Wars? You understand that it will affect nations globally especially EU. It won't affect the U.S as much but it's already starting to impact U.S. markets.
If sanctions are currently impacting the nation with the highest GDP, other nations including Germany, China, France, Brazil, Japan and more will be affected through chain reaction.
Oh and I read back up and noticed that you were the one that posted how it could potentially spark WW3. That won't happen for more than just several reasons. Nor will Russia go to war with EU nations.
1.Going back to history, the Cold War never turned into a nuclear war because Russia knew that if they released nuclear weapons, the U.S. could easily retaliate back with several more. That's why chances of nuclear war is unlikely.
2. In present time, sanctions on Russia is fucking up their economy bad right now. Obama didn't even play his best hand yet; He has yet to push sanctions that affects Russia's largest economic assets. But current sanctions in effect are already making it impossible for Russia to even fund a war. Imagine what will happen when Obama pushes sanctions that attacks Russia's largest economic assets? Russia will starve as a country. Like I mentioned previously, sanctions has everything to do with the crisis.
3. In an unlikely future where Putin decides to go to war with EU, Putin will be up against united world powers. Although Russia's army is big enough to take down Ukraine, it's no match for surrounding EU nations along with U.S. which could easily wipe out Russia. I'm sure former KGB is smarter than to put his country through a futile war where Putin knows he loses either way.
Several more reasons but those are what I could think of currently. War is impractical no matter what the media says.
If sanctions are currently impacting the nation with the highest GDP, other nations including Germany, China, France, Brazil, Japan and more will be affected through chain reaction.
Oh and I read back up and noticed that you were the one that posted how it could potentially spark WW3. That won't happen for more than just several reasons. Nor will Russia go to war with EU nations.
1.Going back to history, the Cold War never turned into a nuclear war because Russia knew that if they released nuclear weapons, the U.S. could easily retaliate back with several more. That's why chances of nuclear war is unlikely.
2. In present time, sanctions on Russia is fucking up their economy bad right now. Obama didn't even play his best hand yet; He has yet to push sanctions that affects Russia's largest economic assets. But current sanctions in effect are already making it impossible for Russia to even fund a war. Imagine what will happen when Obama pushes sanctions that attacks Russia's largest economic assets? Russia will starve as a country. Like I mentioned previously, sanctions has everything to do with the crisis.
3. In an unlikely future where Putin decides to go to war with EU, Putin will be up against united world powers. Although Russia's army is big enough to take down Ukraine, it's no match for surrounding EU nations along with U.S. which could easily wipe out Russia. I'm sure former KGB is smarter than to put his country through a futile war where Putin knows he loses either way.
Several more reasons but those are what I could think of currently. War is impractical no matter what the media says.
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If the Ukrainian army starts using force (i.e. shooting) it's gonna erupt BIG TIME. Who knows what will happen. I find it interesting that the media is keeping quieter about this. I'm guessing it's because they are biased and are confused, now that Ukraine may possibly do the bad things this time.