make love not war, war is hell it stinks and smells
Ukraine
- Thread starter MikeK
- Start date
cant we all just get along 
[DOUBLEPOST=1394352959][/DOUBLEPOST]
I agree with you on principle (media)
but be aware that we are all corrupted by the power of the media that he is a real growing radicalization of stakeholders in the armed conflict[DOUBLEPOST=1394356408][/DOUBLEPOST]
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I have been holding my tongue. But seriously...... whole world is telling Russia to stop annexing countries.
Here is a good article on the USA's actions: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/14/us-foreign-policy-crimea-obama-response
The UN vote kinda says it all. Completely legit UN resolution vetoed by Russia.
Putin's actions are seeming very similar to prewar german actions......
And before anyone says it... Ukraine isn't something the USA can deal with right now. The USA didn't (or shouldn't have) had plans to involve itself with Ukraine. USA has enough on its plate. Especially since elections are coming up. The Obama administration, im thinking, didn't want anything to do with this shit.
And please. Get out of here with that protecting ethnic russians bullshit. Russia isn't working with Ukraine. Russia isn't working with the UN. Russia doesn't want UN monitors involved. And when I say russia, I guess I'm really referring to russian oligarchs and putin.
Here is a good article on the USA's actions: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/14/us-foreign-policy-crimea-obama-response
The UN vote kinda says it all. Completely legit UN resolution vetoed by Russia.
Putin's actions are seeming very similar to prewar german actions......
And before anyone says it... Ukraine isn't something the USA can deal with right now. The USA didn't (or shouldn't have) had plans to involve itself with Ukraine. USA has enough on its plate. Especially since elections are coming up. The Obama administration, im thinking, didn't want anything to do with this shit.
And please. Get out of here with that protecting ethnic russians bullshit. Russia isn't working with Ukraine. Russia isn't working with the UN. Russia doesn't want UN monitors involved. And when I say russia, I guess I'm really referring to russian oligarchs and putin.
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Guess so.
Over 82% of people had cast ballots, about 96% voted for joining Russia.
And that with only 58% of ethnic Russians, 25% of UKRAINIANS and 12% Tatars.
I've seen people taking Ukraininan symbols down from numerous government buildings..[DOUBLEPOST=1395076687][/DOUBLEPOST]@TheDude
Russian veto was as legit as the resolution and all 13 countries voting for it knew what would happen even before drafting it.
Why not let Ukraine decide? Because why not let Serbia decide on Kosovo? Or because why not let Crimea decide for itself. 96% is not 51%.
On a serious note, it's obvious that everyone is playing chess. I don't understand why you get so mad over nothing. I doubt you've ever heard of Crimea in your whole life except for the last couple of months.
Over 82% of people had cast ballots, about 96% voted for joining Russia.
And that with only 58% of ethnic Russians, 25% of UKRAINIANS and 12% Tatars.
I've seen people taking Ukraininan symbols down from numerous government buildings..[DOUBLEPOST=1395076687][/DOUBLEPOST]@TheDude
Russian veto was as legit as the resolution and all 13 countries voting for it knew what would happen even before drafting it.
Why not let Ukraine decide? Because why not let Serbia decide on Kosovo? Or because why not let Crimea decide for itself. 96% is not 51%.
On a serious note, it's obvious that everyone is playing chess. I don't understand why you get so mad over nothing. I doubt you've ever heard of Crimea in your whole life except for the last couple of months.
un resolution, yeah a resolution to not have a vote, genius resolution... isntead of boycotting the vote they could have sent obsevers to make sure everything is legit????
a vote can never be wrong IMO
why the hell would you be against a vote?
crimeans seem to be happy.
@MikeK so russia has accepted them into russia yet, havent found any accurate news stating facts
In a real democracy, if crimea wants its independence, it gets it. Ukraine would allow that if a good government was set up... instead of grand military forces descending upon the area.
How can you say any of that shit is legit?|
Who are they protecting?
This is as bad as that stupid "weapons of mass destruction" bullshit during the bush administration.
Except in that case, I, among many of my friends, and thousands of people nationwide, came to the streets protesting. Bush administration was horrible. I hope this putin bullshit goes away before it gets like that, if it isn't already like that.
How can you say any of that shit is legit?|
Who are they protecting?
This is as bad as that stupid "weapons of mass destruction" bullshit during the bush administration.
Except in that case, I, among many of my friends, and thousands of people nationwide, came to the streets protesting. Bush administration was horrible. I hope this putin bullshit goes away before it gets like that, if it isn't already like that.
Well, legally, the Parliament will need to adopt a constitutional amendment as we have all regions listed there, so give it a few weeks.
yeah, im sure the ukrainienb goverment would have been very eager to give crimea to russia if they had only waited...NOT
also, noone tried to sent observers, they called it illigal and that was the end of it. froim what i heard they ever invitet observerse but they refused to come, sdaying that only the ukrainien goverment had the right to invite them.
also, noone tried to sent observers, they called it illigal and that was the end of it. froim what i heard they ever invitet observerse but they refused to come, sdaying that only the ukrainien goverment had the right to invite them.
It's not about whether Ukraine government would have wanted to.... a legit government couldn't have said no....
if 95% of of crimea wants to join russia, let them. Just not while they have a gun pointed to their heads.
Russia is making a clear point... "we're going to take this shit... and you're not going to do anything about it"
It has nothing to do with what the crimeans want. It has nothing to do with what the rest of the world wants except to spite them. It's about what putin and his cronies want.
And it's not about the Ukraine government waiting.... it's about the Ukraine government being set up and established before russia runs in and starts stealing territory. Government isn't even worked out yet!
if 95% of of crimea wants to join russia, let them. Just not while they have a gun pointed to their heads.
Russia is making a clear point... "we're going to take this shit... and you're not going to do anything about it"
It has nothing to do with what the crimeans want. It has nothing to do with what the rest of the world wants except to spite them. It's about what putin and his cronies want.
And it's not about the Ukraine government waiting.... it's about the Ukraine government being set up and established before russia runs in and starts stealing territory. Government isn't even worked out yet!
So your solution is to have russia come in under the bullshit guise of humanitarianism and scoop up what it can???
Your solution still doesn't help ukraine! Doesn't help the crimeans.
It's not about waiting, it's about getting shit done, which takes time. And the USA and Russia and the rest of the world digging their money-hungry fingers into the situation doesn't help AT ALL.
Russia on one hand says "yea let's let Crimea decide what it wants for itself" and then on the other hand uses military force to ensure the outcome it wants, while also denying Ukraine the right to decide what it wants for itself.. while ALSO vetoing a unanimous vote by the UN? Come on. That's not democracy....
The shit was an oligarchy. There is no democratic process. Not in reality. The only thing that happens in goveremnts like that is regime change, usually precipitated by protest and revolution.
The BEST thing that could have happened to Ukraine did.... goodbye yanukovich. Now they're in an antebellum period of sorts.... Russia getting involved militarily pretty much ensured the failure of any democratic government being established.
Your solution still doesn't help ukraine! Doesn't help the crimeans.
It's not about waiting, it's about getting shit done, which takes time. And the USA and Russia and the rest of the world digging their money-hungry fingers into the situation doesn't help AT ALL.
Russia on one hand says "yea let's let Crimea decide what it wants for itself" and then on the other hand uses military force to ensure the outcome it wants, while also denying Ukraine the right to decide what it wants for itself.. while ALSO vetoing a unanimous vote by the UN? Come on. That's not democracy....
The shit was an oligarchy. There is no democratic process. Not in reality. The only thing that happens in goveremnts like that is regime change, usually precipitated by protest and revolution.
The BEST thing that could have happened to Ukraine did.... goodbye yanukovich. Now they're in an antebellum period of sorts.... Russia getting involved militarily pretty much ensured the failure of any democratic government being established.
In the USA if that many people protested, something would change.
We wouldn't have to resort to revolution.
In fact, if you want to talk to your congressperson here, you can. All you have to do is request a visit.
Russia is scooping up territory here. Not protecting people.
I was at the gym yesterday and NBC news was talking about the Ukraine issue, and I was so infuriated by the lack of good journalism that I smacked the screen and yelled and attracted the attention of people around me, who were appalled, which made me appalled.
However, there are smart people here in America discussing the issue. And they are definitely not on Putin's side.
We wouldn't have to resort to revolution.
In fact, if you want to talk to your congressperson here, you can. All you have to do is request a visit.
Russia is scooping up territory here. Not protecting people.
I was at the gym yesterday and NBC news was talking about the Ukraine issue, and I was so infuriated by the lack of good journalism that I smacked the screen and yelled and attracted the attention of people around me, who were appalled, which made me appalled.
However, there are smart people here in America discussing the issue. And they are definitely not on Putin's side.