Ukraine

[MikeK]

If Russia gets their fingers deep enough into Ukraine, they will appoint oligarchs, they will suck the nation dry of resources, and they will make the nation a failed slave state. The economy will fail in all regards that don't help Russia.

Just let me ask you how you came up with that.
They don't have any resources to suck, all the plants that are there were built in the eastern part and by Russia, we constantly send them loooots of money and constantly excuse them for not paying the debts and gas bills, even tho we sell them gas cheaper than most other countries.
It's like with Caucasus. Russia INVADED the poor people, now it's the most subsidized region in the whole country.

 

[theGenius]

russia wants to protect ethnic russians in a chaotic state, i dont see how that is so damn controversial? wouldnt any goverment do exactly the same? also, these troops were there even before this revolution, so dont make this look like some all out armageddon invasion. also there are a dozen contries pissing in this pool that dont even have any ethnic minority there.
also lets not forget that Kiev does not speak for the entire contry, just because protesters in Kiev storm the goverment doesnt mean the rest of the contry is pleased with it (especially the eastern parts)
sure there is probably a hidden agenda behind it, but then again when is there not in todays politics.
also, if ukraine really think they are better of in the EU they are very wrong.

althou i dont support russian actions in krim its kinda understandable what the russians did. and if the media wouldnt get all horny about it things probably would go so much more smoothly. the media is the biggest warmonger of this century!

but obama coming out now saying this is violation of international law is utterly ridiculous, given the fact that there has been not a single contry violating more international laws then the U.S. and all the exeptions it makes for its allies, but as soon as ANYTHING or ANYONE is anti-russian, U.S and especially wester media is gonna be there to support it, even if they cant find anything better then a attentionwhore shoving a chicken up her pussy.

this cold war politics have to stop. and as a german i am most pissed at Angela Merkel, ever since she took office germany pretty much copies the U.S foreign policies and dragged relations with russia in the dirt. wich is utter bullshit and not the least in europes or germanys interest.
ex-president schröder did so much to actully do something productive like construct gas pipelines who benefit all and russian-german relations where very good and non of this cold war hangover bs was there. now its all to shit again.
thank god schröder now works for gazprom and keeps his buddy putin close, othervice who knows where we would be today. that bitch needs to GTFO of office.

bottomline: i hope the world can drop the bs and i hope ukraine gets rid of its corruption. i really hope stuff works out, was in kiev some years ago at the very place these demonstrations were, and it is unreconizable.

 

[MikeK]

russia wants to protect ethnic russians in a chaotic state, i dont see how that is so damn controversial? wouldnt any goverment do exactly the same? also, these troops were there even before this revolution, so dont make this look like some all out armageddon invasion. also there are a dozen contries pissing in this pool that dont even have any ethnic minority there.
also lets not forget that Kiev does not speak for the entire contry, just because protesters in Kiev storm the goverment doesnt mean the rest of the contry is pleased with it (especially the eastern parts)
sure there is probably a hidden agenda behind it, but then again when is there not in todays politics.
also, if ukraine really think they are better of in the EU they are very wrong.

althou i dont support russian actions in krim its kinda understandable what the russians did. and if the media wouldnt get all horny about it things probably would go so much more smoothly. the media is the biggest warmonger of this century!

but obama coming out now saying this is violation of international law is utterly ridiculous, given the fact that there has been not a single contry violating more international laws then the U.S. and all the exeptions it makes for its allies, but as soon as ANYTHING or ANYONE is anti-russian, U.S and especially wester media is gonna be there to support it, even if they cant find anything better then a attentionwhore shoving a chicken up her pussy.

this cold war politics have to stop. and as a german i am most pissed at Angela Merkel, ever since she took office germany pretty much copies the U.S foreign policies and dragged relations with russia in the dirt. wich is utter bullshit and not the least in europes or germanys interest.
ex-president schröder did so much to actully do something productive like construct gas pipelines who benefit all and russian-german relations where very good and non of this cold war hangover bs was there. now its all to shit again.
thank god schröder now works for gazprom and keeps his buddy putin close, othervice who knows where we would be today. that bitch needs to GTFO of office.

bottomline: i hope the world can drop the bs and i hope ukraine gets rid of its corruption. i really hope stuff works out, was in kiev some years ago at the very place these demonstrations were, and it is unreconizable.

That must be your love to russian vodka what makes you think this way

 

[theGenius]

That must be your love to russian vodka what makes you think this way

lol, no. i just inform myself thru more and better sources then euronews, and i have my own opinions.
also, i got more love for russia itself then for its vodka

 

[TheDude]

Well what I said was a contradiction in itself. I was trying to say it would be stupid to take over Ukraine and install more Russian oligarchs there.

 

[Gage]

I can understand that Putin is going all out now because he waited several months for the Sochi games to be over. Due to his large investment in the games, he didn't want to do anything that could potentially ruin the event. After waiting several months for the games to be over, he probably wants to show that he's not just some pushover which is why he's going all out now with military actions. However the threats faced by Russians in Ukraine is not severe enough to justify sending in troops IMO. Since he's a former KGB, I think he's only trying to save face and also gain more power by invading Ukraine.

But what Putin decides to do is entirely up to what the U.S. does now. If Obama stupidly decides to push his limits and actually punish Putin with sanctions, Putin isn't just going to sit back and loosen his grip on power. He's most likely gonna retaliate with extreme measures.

 

[TheDude]

What Putin will do more likely than anything else is make things very hard for the USA with Iran, Syria, North Korea.

Putin's actions are also possibly related to the USA's impending cuts to the defense program, which would be pretty substantial. Keeping the threat of war with Russia on the table would be just the thing to keep us in cold war spending mode and ruin our economy.

 

[Gage]

But whatever Putin decides to do here on out, each outcome is unfavorable for him. Putin is banking on the fact that the U.S. will back off first but if the U.S. doesn't, Russia will end up invading Ukraine and Putin will only come off as a pariah to his country. But if the U.S. does back off, Putin will still probably end up invading Ukraine because he still has unforgiven Ukraine and thinks that his eye for an eye actions are justified.
He's not trying to help his country by invading Russia. He obviously has an high opinion of himself and thinks invading Ukraine will ensure that no one fucks with him again.

 

[TheDude]

Georgia wasn't too happy about getting invaded, either.

I highly doubt that Putin would be ostracized by the general public for invading Ukraine.
@MikeK , do you think that if Putin invaded Ukraine, there would be a significant outcry against Putin (from the Russian public)?

 

[theGenius]

Georgia wasn't too happy about getting invaded, either.

I highly doubt that Putin would be ostracized by the general public for invading Ukraine.
@MikeK , do you think that if Putin invaded Ukraine, there would be a significant outcry against Putin (from the Russian public)?

if i remember correctly it was georgia who invaded south ossetia.

 

[TheDude]

The whole situation was precipitated by Russia.

And also Georgia's batshit crazy leader.

 

[Gage]

Georgia wasn't too happy about getting invaded, either.

I highly doubt that Putin would be ostracized by the general public for invading Ukraine.
@MikeK , do you think that if Putin invaded Ukraine, there would be a significant outcry against Putin (from the Russian public)?

I think it depends on how he deals with the public and what he tells the media. Of course it'll just be a poor excuse to save his rep IMO.

 

[TheDude]

Georgians are crazy. I lived with Georgian for a while.

 

[MikeK]

@MikeK , do you think that if Putin invaded Ukraine, there would be a significant outcry against Putin (from the Russian public)?

From some, yes. From the majority, no.
Almost everyone in the western part of russia has friends/family members in eastern Ukraine. It's probably like Canada for northen Americans or Austria for Germans. You would support the idea of your army helping your friends.
The protest in Kiev was won by the western part, it obviously was unconstitutional, and the new "state" authority does not represent the east by any means.

By saying unconstitutional, I simply mean unconstitutional.
I do not support Yanukovich who obviously was an awful leader.
Of course, I hope that any military conflict will be avoided but the people in eastern part should have the right to decide their future.

Also, Georgia invaded Ossetia and killed a lot of russian and ossetian peace keepers first, only after that russian troops were sent to Ossetia.

 

[Nikon]

Just saw this on the headlines "Russian fleet issues ultimatum: Surrender or 'face storm'"

 

[MikeK]

Just saw this on the headlines "Russian fleet issues ultimatum: Surrender or 'face storm'"

Yeah, saw that too.
2 Hours later the same sourse stated that there was no ultimatum
we'll see in about 8 hours,lol

 

[Nikon]

Yeah, I hope there isn't. I'm not too fond of the thought of a war starting in a neighboring country...

 

[Storky]

Yeah, saw that too.
2 Hours later the same sourse stated that there was no ultimatum
we'll see in about 8 hours,lol

The media LOVE to blow shit out of proportion. Especially here in the UK. I never listen to their bullshit journalism.

I'd rather take your opinion (who lives in Russia) over some fella whos getting paid to write stories that grab the reader.

 

[TheDude]

I truly think that the only way for Ukraine to lose the slimy grip of Oligarchy is through a revolution.

 

[Joonikko]

Sorry to bump the thread, but I thought some of you might like Vice's coverage of the crisis.