God bless the USA

jasmine

|K3|ONLY
Member of the Year
|K3| Member
two thought on my part: first you say the word marriage has a religious connotation I agree but the word law is also of religious origin (the tablets of the law of Moses), and then you say that America is not a Christian country, I agree, but why the presidents of the USA took the oath on the Bible? It is a real question I'd like you to meet me :)
 

null

and void
|K3| Member
two thought on my part: first you say the word marriage has a religious connotation I agree but the word law is also of religious origin (the tablets of the law of Moses), and then you say that America is not a Christian country, I agree, but why the presidents of the USA took the oath on the Bible? It is a real question I'd like you to meet me :)

Gladly, dauphine :)

1) Civil law predates Moses by thousands of years: historians place Moses' life somewhere between 1391–1271 BCE [0], whereas one of the first examples of civil law comes from Ancient Egypt and dates as far back as 3000 BCE [1]. Ancient Sumerian law was codified in the 22nd century BCE, and the classic example of Hammurabi's code around 1760 BCE. As another comparison, the Old Testament dates back to 1280 BCE.

So, in several instances we have civil laws being defined that are free from a religious context.

2) Taking the oath of office on a Bible is a tradition that some presidents have taken part in, but is in no way a requirement. In fact, there has been much variation over the years. From Wikipedia: "Theodore Roosevelt did not use a Bible when taking the oath in 1901. John Quincy Adams swore on a book of law, with the intention that he was swearing on the constitution. Lyndon B. Johnson was sworn in on a Roman Catholic missal on Air Force One. Harry S. Truman, Dwight D. Eisenhower, Richard Nixon, and Barack Obama each swore the oath on two Bibles. Washington took his oath of office with an altar bible borrowed from the St. John's Lodge No. 1, Ancient York Masons lodge in New York and he kissed the Bible after taking the oath of office. Subsequent presidents followed suit, up to and including Harry Truman, but Dwight D. Eisenhower broke that tradition by saying his own prayer instead of kissing the Bible." [2]

This practice, and its variation, actually fits in well with the arguments I've been making so far. U.S. presidents are taking an oath of office. That oath has no religious connotation, and yet oftentimes they are swearing to that oath on something that quite obviously does. Why?

In my opinion, they are swearing on something that has significant _personal_ importance to symbolize how seriously they _personally_ take that oath of office. "I am an adherent of this belief system, and under this belief system any oath taken on its holy object is a solemn vow. I thereby certify that, personally, this oath of office is being undertaken in the most serious personal terms I can make."

And, of course, that oath of office is to uphold, protect and enforce the neutral, common law framework that _all_ belief systems can operate within. So while, on the surface, it seems to suggest that the office itself has a religious affiliation, it's actually implying that those taking such oaths are wholly dedicated to its neutral fulfillment under whatever personal terms they find most meaningful/appropriate.

By this logic, using the example from my previous post, a president elect, upon taking their oath of office, and being a strict adherent of the tenets of the god Thor, would be totally justified to take their oath of office on Mjölnir.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law#History
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_office_of_the_President_of_the_United_States#Use_of_Bibles
 
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miniCyb3r

Slave to nothing.
|K3| Member
How does one define America?
f8011e1d27481fdf14db2e19eb528b86415b503e23405b1a6afe4ce0920f20e3.jpg
 

SteelHorse

|KKK|Clash Expert
|K3| Member
Firstly I want to apologize for the many grammatical errors that i’m sure this post has, and for it being the messiest post that you will ever read as well. I totally suck at writing, please bear with me.

So In light of everyone and their moms rating my previous post as shit, I figured i'd spend a little more time on this post.

We Christians here in America believe in the Bible and what it says. Most Christians believe the Bible is the inherent word of God. A lot of American Christians also believe that this country of ours was started by Christian men to escape from religious persecution and to have the freedom to worship God as they saw fit according to the Bible. Most of the people in America at that time believed in God and so naturally He was incorporated into our government, it wasn't ever even disputed in those times, but slowly and surely America has become "smarter" and no longer believes in this God. We don't need to because we have science to prove everything now. Well shockingly as it may be, there are still some of us dumb fucks around that still believe in God, and that Christian morals should still be incorporated into the government and that Christians can’t be tolerant of rulings that go against the Bible.

It's amazing to me how much everyone talks about Freedom to make a personal choice, but then you make one and everyone hates you for it and gladly expresses to you how stupid you are for making that choice. No one is allowed to speak against things they think are wrong anymore. Especially if it's against gays, evolutionism, or any widely accepted thing, that not so long ago wasn't even questionable. If you do, immediately you can be charged with a hate crime against that person and are stamped as someone that is a hater and just hates everyone. Just take Houston Texas for example. The mayor of Houston, Annise Parker, attempted to subpoena 5 different Houston pastors. It stated that any of their sermons dealing with homosexuality, gender identity, or the cities Equal Rights ordinance that were to be preached had to be approved by herself before they could legally be preached. It was soon dropped because of the absurdity of the subpoena, but a lot of people backed her in this. Later Governor Abbott signed a Pastors Protection Act to protect pastors freedom of speech and fundamental rights as an American. That means that homosexuals are so much protected that you can’t even express your thoughts on the subject without the people that disagree with you fighting you legally. Talk about freedom being abolished right there.

So for me, my parents raised me very differently than most of you were raised. They raised me to believe in the Bible and that it is the Inherent Word of God. In this book it states that one man should not lay with another man, and a women should not lay with another women. So that is what I believe. Fuck me, right!? Now a lot of you have stated the verse that says that the second greatest commandment is to love your neighbor as yourself. And that by doing so you should accept everything that your neighbor does and agree with him in doing so. That is not the case nor is it what that verse means. Now before I explain what this verse means according the the Scriptures, let me remind you of the verse before that and what God says is the greatest commandment, that being to Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, and soul. That means that you must grow close to God and Love Him. As Christians we do this through His Word and prayer. In the Bible it sates that homosexuality is a sin. Therefore if we truly love God then we as Christians cannot tolerate what he does not tolerate. Homosexuality falls under that. Now moving on to the next verse. Let me explain this point for so many of you that have quoted this verse. I am called by God to love everyone with His love. That's very hard to do and for me as a Christian I believe it is my greatest struggle. How can I love everyone in the world equally? And even if I can what does the word "Love" truly mean? For me as a Christian I must look at it from Gods perspective as best as I can. So I turn to the Bible and pray to God for answers, as a Christian that is what i'm called to do. Most of you that do not believe there is a god are thinking this guy is a fucking tard at this point, but please for my sake keep in mind this is how I was raised and what I believe today. From what I have found Gods love is much greater than I can imagine as a finite human being that I am. But what I can tell you is that I strive to do my best to Love everyone equally no matter what they are, or what they do. Now the world has the interpretation of Love as being something like no matter what someone does I will support them and I will accept their actions and beliefs, and I will fight for them in what ever they do. I have as a Christian have a different interpretation of Love. I cannot agree and just blindly follow what everyone says or does. I have a sister that thought she liked girls at one point and had a girlfriend. My dad was very upset about it and didn't want to accept her in my family anymore. This is the wrong reaction, and I still to this day tell him that it was wrong of him as a professing Christian to do something like that. I and my mom (my mom is my role model in life BTW) on the other hand talked and saw my sister as she had a girlfriend. My conversations if they ever lead to it were always that there was nothing she could do to stop me from loving her, and having her in my life, and I mean it. Now at the same time I expressed how I did not believe she was living how God would want her to live, and that you cannot enter into a relationship with Christ openly and proudly in sin. In the Bible it says Homosexuality is a sin, so that is what I believe. Fuck me for believing that, right? At the same time I have a brother in jail for 35 years for raping a 10 year old girl over the course of a year. This one is very hard for me, and when I mean hard I mean I am in sin because I, at this point in my life, cannot love my brother despite what he did. I haven't spoken to him since he was found out. My mom on the other hand still speaks to him and the girl he raped, and they both know this. Now don't confuse the fact that my mom talks with my brother as accepting him and what he did, because she doesn't. And even she has a hard time with it, but she knows as a Christian we are supposed to be representatives of Christ and His love. So she writes him and talks over the phone with him when he is allowed to. My mom is the only person outside of jail he has spoken to since he has been in there and it has already been several years. My dad refuses to talk with him and openly thinks he should be shot over what he did. Again, not the right reaction. Here in lies something that I believe everyone in the world is bad at. The thought that "I" am better than my brother or the next person. Sadly I am not. I am just as capable of sinning just as much as he is. Maybe not in the same way, but in other ways. Like I cannot love my brother. That is a sin, and it's even a sin that I openly put aside and think I am justified in. This is a problem for me, because now I cannot call myself a Christian in this aspect of my life. So all of this was for me to try and explain my thinking, as fucked up as most of you will see this, it is how I was raised from birth and it is what I think now. Jana being a lesbian doesn't make me hate her, I cannot hate someone for their actions if I am a professing Christian. Hate is a sin as well. I am however supposed to share with her and everyone else in the world Gods love, and in that I cannot stand with some peoples actions or decisions. Again just in case you lost me in there that doesn't mean I hate them or even dislike them. So when the few of us speak up and say we do not agree with the decision of allowing Homosexuals to be legally married is because we see that as an open sin, and we as representatives of Christ must make it known that we cannot agree with rulings like this. I work for a Fire Department, and when I first started I worked on the ambulance. When you work in this service long enough you start seeing a lot of people multiple times, mostly with the same complaint every time. One of these people was an open lesbian. I can't say exactly how many times I have taken her to the hospital, but I can remember 5 right off the bat. Do I care that she is a lesbian? Absolutely not. I treat her with just as much respect as I do everyone else. The fact that she's a lesbian doesn't even come up.

I think my point thus far is pretty much explained. I am not trying to convert any of you nor am I trying to make any of you change your thinking. All I am doing is trying to explain my point of view and hope that you will understand me a little better and not think i'm just a southern turd that just hates everyone that doesn't believe in what I think everyone should believe, because that isn't the case. The reason I stay here is because I respect what you believe and I feel that I can learn a lot from all of you. And I hope the feeling is mutual. If you made it this far, Thanks for reading! :)
 

DamageINC

K3's Useless Admin
|K3| Executive
I condemned it because you went beyond a personal choice. Personally believing something is wrong is fine. Telling others they ARE wrong because of your personal belief is not. The problem isn't that people speak about their personal beliefs, the problem, as i said, is when people use their personal beliefs to speak out against others and condemn them, how they live and what rights they should have.

That's how i see it.

I see religious people, including politicians , celebrities, etc. speaking out against an entire community made up of American citizens by telling them they don't have the right to equality because it violates their religious freedom, etc. (which is nonsense) That's what i have a problem with. Believe what you want, but don't use those beliefs as a governance for how others should live or what is right or wrong for other people. Use them for yourself.

I do agree, however, that this PC nonsense in America has gone way, way too far.
 

SteelHorse

|KKK|Clash Expert
|K3| Member
I condemned it because you went beyond a personal choice. Personally believing something is wrong is fine. Telling others they ARE wrong because of your personal belief is not. The problem isn't that people speak about their personal beliefs, the problem, as i said, is when people use their personal beliefs to speak out against others and condemn them, how they live and what rights they should have.

That's how i see it.


I do agree, however, that this PC non-sense in America has gone way, way too far.

How do I express my feelings then if I can't say something is wrong. Now when I say something is wrong it is obviously in my own opinion. I don't think anyone can speak without it being in their own opinion. This being a federal governmental ruling, and me being a citizen of the United States I can't say that I think something is wrong? Because that's all I did.
 

DamageINC

K3's Useless Admin
|K3| Executive
Your post seemed to me to be an absolute. Maybe i took it the wrong way, but saying "Homosexual marriage is against what the Bible teaches, therefore it is wrong" seems to be an absolute statement of fact.

It may be wrong to you, but that doesn't make it wrong.
 

Arcani

Second Lieutenant
Former Krew Member
i dont see the problem for religious people - as people have pointed out the government isnt forcing churches to marry gay people(unless i missed something) and they have equal rights like everyone else
im allowed to say what i want about religion and u guys can say what u want - plus all thats going on is gay people can marry - just cuz it goes against ur beliefs doesnt mean it shouldnt happen; however like i said if its in a church they have the right to say no
im sorry but to me in my mind it looks like religious people are saying you cant do this cuz its in this book i love and believe in(sorry thats just my mind i hope i dont piss anyone off) but people cant do what they believe in yet you complain about religious freedom

you can believe that something is wrong thats fine but if there are people who suffer cuz of that then in my book its not right to force it on others - what would you do if people just made it illegal to own or read the bible? were not taking away your beliefs were just making sure every1 gets their rights

Edit: Sorry if i seem off i am kinda tired but im not able to sleep for some reason
 
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SteelHorse

|KKK|Clash Expert
|K3| Member
Your post seemed to me to be an absolute. Maybe i took it the wrong way, but saying "Homosexual marriage is against what the Bible teaches, therefore it is wrong" seems to be an absolute statement of fact.

It may be wrong to you, but that doesn't make it wrong.

I don't rlly believe in absolutes. I don't think anything is absolute.
 

null

and void
|K3| Member
Thought experiment.

Think about yourself right now. Think about your sexual orientation: who you are attracted to. Say you're a heterosexual male and are therefore attracted to females. Think about that. Feels right, doesn't it? Nothing feels off about it. Feels perfectly normal.

Now think about entering into a sexual relationship with a man. Yes, really, think about it. Feels bad? Feels gross? Maybe you'd even say it feels repulsive? Perhaps the very idea was so awful to you that you didn't actually think about it?

Why do you feel that way? Why do you feel any way? Chemicals, swirling around in your brain and body. Electrical impulses firing a certain way at certain times. Of course what you think and feel seems right. Of course it seems normal. It is literally the WAY you are wired. For you, it IS normal.

Now imagine you live in a predominantly homosexual society, and that being heterosexual is a sin; something that is out of accordance with the way the divine creator supposedly wants you to live. Can you bring yourself to be with a member of your same sex? Remember how repulsive, or wrong, you thought that was when I asked you to picture it earlier? Think you could _fake_ that life and be happy?

Guess what: That's _exactly_ how homosexuals feel because - guess what - that's how THEY are wired.

So now you're an outcast. People in this society are angry at you. They view you with indifference, disgust, or they say that they love you with one breath, then tell you that you're still wrong with the next. Everyone says you are broken. Everyone says you are not right.

Do you feel broken? If you're a heterosexual man, does it feel _wrong_ to be attracted to women? Not to you. It feels perfectly normal. What happened? All of these people are telling you that the creator wants you to behave differently, that this creator is full of infinite wisdom and love, that the creator _made_ you, can help you even, and that the creator never makes mistakes.

But the creator obviously made a mistake: you. According to everyone, you are wrong. Why did the creator make you like this? Why couldn't you just be normal? Wouldn't life be so much easier if you could just be attracted to men like you're supposed to be? Hey, it's a switch, right? Flip it and go get a boyfriend. Should be easy, yes? No? It isn't easy? You can't do it? No matter what anyone says you're still attracted to women?

Ever felt that way? Ever known what its like to be on the other side of the coin? Homosexuality is not a choice just like heterosexuality is not a choice. Think about that. Did you _ever_ make a conscious decision about which gender you were sexually attracted to? No. You were an adolescent who did not have sexual desires and then, sometime during puberty, you discovered that you found some people attractive.

Free will implies choice. Did you pick which country you would be born in? No. Which family you'd be born to? No. When you'd be born? No. Did you _personally_ pick your eye color? Hair color? Skin color? Did you pick your gender? Did you pick which sex you were attracted to?

NO. All of these things were ASSIGNED to you at BIRTH through circumstance, statistical probability, and genetics. You had NO CHOICE. You might say: but you can change all of those things. Dye your hair, wear colored contacts, bleach or tan your skin, get surgery to change your gender, etc. Except if you do those things to _change_ yourself, to hide who you _really_ are, then you have not changed. You are wearing a mask. You are lying to yourself. Have fun sleeping with that at night.

Nope. Hope you were born _right_ (and, as we all know, what's right _never_ changes).
 

NickHouston

WaLLy's Personal Favorite Krew Member
|K3| Member
|K3| Media Team
Thought experiment.

Think about yourself right now. Think about your sexual orientation: who you are attracted to. Say you're a heterosexual male and are therefore attracted to females. Think about that. Feels right, doesn't it? Nothing feels off about it. Feels perfectly normal.

Now think about entering into a sexual relationship with a man. Yes, really, think about it. Feels bad? Feels gross? Maybe you'd even say it feels repulsive? Perhaps the very idea was so awful to you that you didn't actually think about it?

Why do you feel that way? Why do you feel any way? Chemicals, swirling around in your brain and body. Electrical impulses firing a certain way at certain times. Of course what you think and feel seems right. Of course it seems normal. It is literally the WAY you are wired. For you, it IS normal.

Now imagine you live in a predominantly homosexual society, and that being heterosexual is a sin; something that is out of accordance with the way the divine creator supposedly wants you to live. Can you bring yourself to be with a member of your same sex? Remember how repulsive, or wrong, you thought that was when I asked you to picture it earlier? Think you could _fake_ that life and be happy?

Guess what: That's _exactly_ how homosexuals feel because - guess what - that's how THEY are wired.

So now you're an outcast. People in this society are angry at you. They view you with indifference, disgust, or they say that they love you with one breath, then tell you that you're still wrong with the next. Everyone says you are broken. Everyone says you are not right.

Do you feel broken? If you're a heterosexual man, does it feel _wrong_ to be attracted to women? Not to you. It feels perfectly normal. What happened? All of these people are telling you that the creator wants you to behave differently, that this creator is full of infinite wisdom and love, that the creator _made_ you, can help you even, and that the creator never makes mistakes.

But the creator obviously made a mistake: you. According to everyone, you are wrong. Why did the creator make you like this? Why couldn't you just be normal? Wouldn't life be so much easier if you could just be attracted to men like you're supposed to be? Hey, it's a switch, right? Flip it and go get a boyfriend. Should be easy, yes? No? It isn't easy? You can't do it? No matter what anyone says you're still attracted to women?

Ever felt that way? Ever known what its like to be on the other side of the coin? Homosexuality is not a choice just like heterosexuality is not a choice. Think about that. Did you _ever_ make a conscious decision about which gender you were sexually attracted to? No. You were an adolescent who did not have sexual desires and then, sometime during puberty, you discovered that you found some people attractive.

Free will implies choice. Did you pick which country you would be born in? No. Which family you'd be born to? No. When you'd be born? No. Did you _personally_ pick your eye color? Hair color? Skin color? Did you pick your gender? Did you pick which sex you were attracted to?

NO. All of these things were ASSIGNED to you at BIRTH through circumstance, statistical probability, and genetics. You had NO CHOICE. You might say: but you can change all of those things. Dye your hair, wear colored contacts, bleach or tan your skin, get surgery to change your gender, etc. Except if you do those things to _change_ yourself, to hide who you _really_ are, then you have not changed. You are wearing a mask. You are lying to yourself. Have fun sleeping with that at night.

Nope. Hope you were born _right_ (and, as we all know, what's right _never_ changes).
I was trying to find a way to put my thoughts into words. Thank you for this.
 

DamageINC

K3's Useless Admin
|K3| Executive
Thought experiment.

Think about yourself right now. Think about your sexual orientation: who you are attracted to. Say you're a heterosexual male and are therefore attracted to females. Think about that. Feels right, doesn't it? Nothing feels off about it. Feels perfectly normal.

Now think about entering into a sexual relationship with a man. Yes, really, think about it. Feels bad? Feels gross? Maybe you'd even say it feels repulsive? Perhaps the very idea was so awful to you that you didn't actually think about it?

Why do you feel that way? Why do you feel any way? Chemicals, swirling around in your brain and body. Electrical impulses firing a certain way at certain times. Of course what you think and feel seems right. Of course it seems normal. It is literally the WAY you are wired. For you, it IS normal.

Now imagine you live in a predominantly homosexual society, and that being heterosexual is a sin; something that is out of accordance with the way the divine creator supposedly wants you to live. Can you bring yourself to be with a member of your same sex? Remember how repulsive, or wrong, you thought that was when I asked you to picture it earlier? Think you could _fake_ that life and be happy?

Guess what: That's _exactly_ how homosexuals feel because - guess what - that's how THEY are wired.

So now you're an outcast. People in this society are angry at you. They view you with indifference, disgust, or they say that they love you with one breath, then tell you that you're still wrong with the next. Everyone says you are broken. Everyone says you are not right.

Do you feel broken? If you're a heterosexual man, does it feel _wrong_ to be attracted to women? Not to you. It feels perfectly normal. What happened? All of these people are telling you that the creator wants you to behave differently, that this creator is full of infinite wisdom and love, that the creator _made_ you, can help you even, and that the creator never makes mistakes.

But the creator obviously made a mistake: you. According to everyone, you are wrong. Why did the creator make you like this? Why couldn't you just be normal? Wouldn't life be so much easier if you could just be attracted to men like you're supposed to be? Hey, it's a switch, right? Flip it and go get a boyfriend. Should be easy, yes? No? It isn't easy? You can't do it? No matter what anyone says you're still attracted to women?

Ever felt that way? Ever known what its like to be on the other side of the coin? Homosexuality is not a choice just like heterosexuality is not a choice. Think about that. Did you _ever_ make a conscious decision about which gender you were sexually attracted to? No. You were an adolescent who did not have sexual desires and then, sometime during puberty, you discovered that you found some people attractive.

Free will implies choice. Did you pick which country you would be born in? No. Which family you'd be born to? No. When you'd be born? No. Did you _personally_ pick your eye color? Hair color? Skin color? Did you pick your gender? Did you pick which sex you were attracted to?

NO. All of these things were ASSIGNED to you at BIRTH through circumstance, statistical probability, and genetics. You had NO CHOICE. You might say: but you can change all of those things. Dye your hair, wear colored contacts, bleach or tan your skin, get surgery to change your gender, etc. Except if you do those things to _change_ yourself, to hide who you _really_ are, then you have not changed. You are wearing a mask. You are lying to yourself. Have fun sleeping with that at night.

Nope. Hope you were born _right_ (and, as we all know, what's right _never_ changes).

Excellent post. Few things irritate me more than people saying that being gay is a conscious choice. Quite frankly, the ignorance in such a statement astounds me. I'm not sure if it's something they need to say to reinforce and justify their beliefs or behaviors or what the deal is, but the ludicrous things I've heard said about gay people just baffle me.

Do they think people just sit down one day and make a list of Pro's and cons and then decide, hey, i'll be sexually attracted to this sex! I don't think it would even be possible for your body to physically react to a gender you not only aren't attracted to but , as you stated, are probably repulsed by in such a context.

To me, it's really no different than liking certain colors, foods, pieces of art, music, etc. Sure, some things can influence that, but for the most part, you see, hear or taste something and either like it or you don't. You don't choose to like it.

One phrase we've heard 1,000 times; What's your type? Some like big, some like petite, we all have particular likes when it comes to hair color, skin color, eye color and a myriad of other physical attributes. Did we all consciously choose which ones we're attracted to? Was someone playing Dr. Schreber and adding in a dash of this and a pinch of that?

That's how i see it, anyway.
 
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PR3C1Z10N

Sergeant
|K3| Member
Excellent post. Few things irritate me more than people saying that being gay is a conscious choice. Quite frankly, the ignorance in such a statement astounds me.

On this point, I totally agree. I don't believe that a person with homosexual preferences sits down one day and thinks, "ya know what, I like my own gender."

Remember, from the Christians's (properly speaking) point of view, it is a sin like any other.

Did I sit down one day and say, "Ya know what, I think I'm going to struggle with pride. And anger ?" And all the other things that are a daily struggle? NO.

It's just fallen human nature. All people are tempted by the world, the flesh (their own predispositions), and the devil.

So there, I don't believe being gay is a conscious choice, at least not for most. It's not a choice, it's a struggle. I'll be the first to say, I'm no angel. I'm the last person you would expect to be saved. A woman once said, "If you REALLY knew me, you would have nothing to do with me.

Will I decide to encourage homosexuality? No, but I do understand it in the same way that I struggle with a whole host of other sins.
 

Arcani

Second Lieutenant
Former Krew Member
Were not asking u to encourage it just put up with it which some very anti religious people have had to for a long time have had to put up eith religion. I dont encourage religon bu im not gunna try to make it illegal i put up with it
 

null

and void
|K3| Member
Will I decide to encourage homosexuality? No, but I do understand it in the same way that I struggle with a whole host of other sins.

Thanks for this clarification. It's nice to know that, in your opinion, altering one's sexual preference (if that sexual preference is deemed wrong) is simply a matter of struggle - it's no different than being prideful, or having anger management issues. Yes, it's nice to know that, were the shoe on the other foot, were being straight a sin, you'd make every effort to start sucking c*ck.
 

jasmine

|K3|ONLY
Member of the Year
|K3| Member
On this point, I totally agree. I don't believe that a person with homosexual preferences sits down one day and thinks, "ya know what, I like my own gender."

Remember, from the Christians's (properly speaking) point of view, it is a sin like any other.

Did I sit down one day and say, "Ya know what, I think I'm going to struggle with pride. And anger ?" And all the other things that are a daily struggle? NO.

It's just fallen human nature. All people are tempted by the world, the flesh (their own predispositions), and the devil.

So there, I don't believe being gay is a conscious choice, at least not for most. It's not a choice, it's a struggle. I'll be the first to say, I'm no angel. I'm the last person you would expect to be saved. A woman once said, "If you REALLY knew me, you would have nothing to do with me.

Will I decide to encourage homosexuality? No, but I do understand it in the same way that I struggle with a whole host of other sins.
between being against and encouragement there are still many choices such as the acceptance of a natural behavior as what homosexuality. You often cite God and the gospels then allow me a small question: god would errors? I'm not trying to cause
 

Titoezz

Second Lieutenant
|K3| Member
I hope Gay marriage doesn't end up in the bucket of things not to talk about in KKK.
Gosh.. The memories... Politics... NSA... TSA... Religion.... Psychome...

Thanks Obama!
 

Jana

Banana!
|K3|Super-Moderator
Recruitment Team
Thought experiment.

Think about yourself right now. Think about your sexual orientation: who you are attracted to. Say you're a heterosexual male and are therefore attracted to females. Think about that. Feels right, doesn't it? Nothing feels off about it. Feels perfectly normal.

Now think about entering into a sexual relationship with a man. Yes, really, think about it. Feels bad? Feels gross? Maybe you'd even say it feels repulsive? Perhaps the very idea was so awful to you that you didn't actually think about it?

Why do you feel that way? Why do you feel any way? Chemicals, swirling around in your brain and body. Electrical impulses firing a certain way at certain times. Of course what you think and feel seems right. Of course it seems normal. It is literally the WAY you are wired. For you, it IS normal.

Now imagine you live in a predominantly homosexual society, and that being heterosexual is a sin; something that is out of accordance with the way the divine creator supposedly wants you to live. Can you bring yourself to be with a member of your same sex? Remember how repulsive, or wrong, you thought that was when I asked you to picture it earlier? Think you could _fake_ that life and be happy?

Guess what: That's _exactly_ how homosexuals feel because - guess what - that's how THEY are wired.

So now you're an outcast. People in this society are angry at you. They view you with indifference, disgust, or they say that they love you with one breath, then tell you that you're still wrong with the next. Everyone says you are broken. Everyone says you are not right.

Do you feel broken? If you're a heterosexual man, does it feel _wrong_ to be attracted to women? Not to you. It feels perfectly normal. What happened? All of these people are telling you that the creator wants you to behave differently, that this creator is full of infinite wisdom and love, that the creator _made_ you, can help you even, and that the creator never makes mistakes.

But the creator obviously made a mistake: you. According to everyone, you are wrong. Why did the creator make you like this? Why couldn't you just be normal? Wouldn't life be so much easier if you could just be attracted to men like you're supposed to be? Hey, it's a switch, right? Flip it and go get a boyfriend. Should be easy, yes? No? It isn't easy? You can't do it? No matter what anyone says you're still attracted to women?

Ever felt that way? Ever known what its like to be on the other side of the coin? Homosexuality is not a choice just like heterosexuality is not a choice. Think about that. Did you _ever_ make a conscious decision about which gender you were sexually attracted to? No. You were an adolescent who did not have sexual desires and then, sometime during puberty, you discovered that you found some people attractive.

Free will implies choice. Did you pick which country you would be born in? No. Which family you'd be born to? No. When you'd be born? No. Did you _personally_ pick your eye color? Hair color? Skin color? Did you pick your gender? Did you pick which sex you were attracted to?

NO. All of these things were ASSIGNED to you at BIRTH through circumstance, statistical probability, and genetics. You had NO CHOICE. You might say: but you can change all of those things. Dye your hair, wear colored contacts, bleach or tan your skin, get surgery to change your gender, etc. Except if you do those things to _change_ yourself, to hide who you _really_ are, then you have not changed. You are wearing a mask. You are lying to yourself. Have fun sleeping with that at night.

Nope. Hope you were born _right_ (and, as we all know, what's right _never_ changes).

This is one of the best posts in this thread so far. I´m so thankful that you wrote this! Couldn´t have said it any better (mostly because of my English lol).

I have another question for @PR3C1Z10N:

What exactly do you mean with "encouraging homosexuality"?
 
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