The AVC/PwnSauce Scandal

[DamageINC]

Mistakes are one thing, we all make them. I've made tons. I was just trying to point out why you may have been left out of execs group. I know that must have stung, it would have me. But i can tell you in all honesty that it was never personal. I admit you made an easy target sometimes, but it wasn't personal.

Anyways, i still think of you as a nice guy, i just think you go about things in the worst way possible at times, and this is obviously the worst of them. The thing that really, really irks me is some of the stuff i read on the Google cache page.

To the last part, i don't know. That's really up to WaLLy. You can feel free to keep in touch with me if you want.

 

[Jack]

i know i have no real right to comment on the part about pwn and or avc being able to stay on forums and servers, but the way i see it, if we keep this up, keep accusing, name calling, blaming etc. we'll just be doing more harm than good, i know there would be a lot of people that would protest letting them swing by s1 or the forum, but if we start banning and talking shit everytime we see them we'll just be giving them an excuse to create a clan and servers dedicated to damaging our community, i mean it pissed everyone off when 24/7 broadcast started all that shit, so lets try and avoid a similar situation.
i mean this isnt me being disloyal, but if AVC started an aussie server that picked up i would want to be able to play on it, it would never take the place of s1 though because i play on s1 for the people not the game, but having the chance to play on a similar server with under 100 ping sounds good.

Theres been a lot of people throwing around "be a man." and shit like that and since we've done that we now need to make sure we are the bigger man, lets be the ones that try to make the best of this instead of helping make it worse.

 

[Xepher]

I think the funniest part of your post is where you say "not knowing them personally" or "never..really talked to them" yet you come up with three paragraphs of shit about why I'm such a bad person based upon no knowledge of the facts or anything about me other than casual observation once on S1 a year ago.

I'd retort, but I don't see anyone disagreeing with me.

You also claim that "There isn't a place I'd rather be" yet you're rarely around, never bothered to become a member and never contributed anything to the group?

I am not a very social person. The last clan I joined was a Freelancer clan 10 years ago only because it was almost necessary to enjoy multiplayer. An Everquest guild 14 years ago because, again, it was necessary. These are the only groups I've joined and believe you me that I live breathe and eat videogames. I am not a clan person by nature. It is the reason I play FFA. I come and go. But what sets this clan apart from all the rest is that I CAN come back and still feel comfortable. I wouldn't have played Cod4 for nearly 1/10th of the time if it wasn't for the krew. Since I found the old a1, I have probably spent around 3 hours out of over a thousand on non-Krew servers.

Are you really giving me shit for not joining? Are you going to feel the same way about regulars on your servers who don't want to join your clan? It really is none of your business as to the exact reasons why I didn't want to join but you were high up on my list of reasons not to.

I'd like to think I've helped in the ways that I can help - by playing and populating. Not much else I could have done to help. There was always a sense of "Not a member, opinion is less important on issues" so I didn't bother talking much. And now you are doing it again - I didn't join, so what do I know? Well I've been around for awhile here. I'm the silent observer. I'm on shout and read the forums and always have when I am active on the server. What I said isn't an attack on you, it is not something I would say lightly or out of context or a general asshole-ish statement in the heat of the moment given what you've done. It is an observation. And I stand by it. Douchebag.

After typing this out I guess I did retort in the end. Oops.

 

[AVC]

Thanks Jack. Them's kind words.

I never set out to Damage the clan (no pun intended).

 

[DamageINC]

Xepher, i think it sucks that that's the vibe you got. I never want anyone to feel that they don't have a say or their opinion doesn't matter because they aren't a member. Hopefully that will change and you consider joining.

 

[Cent0]

Especially go back to basically the first big instance we had of people who seemed like they were wallhacking but really weren't..... me and pwnsauce went at it for a couple of months. Multiple bans.... started ALL this shit. You think he's bad now? OMG try being in the krew a year and a half ago.

Basically, i played call of duty like all day every day and just learned the fuck out of server one, and PwnSauce, in his infinite wisdom was like "HOW DID THAT NOOB GET GOOD OVER NIGHT. IT MUST BE HACKS"
And that's when it all started

shit i remember these days.. lol twas very annoying.
--
edit ok i kinda understand.

All I can say is, WOW mr. pwn and mr. avc, WOW.
I remember three years ago when you both joined, pwn with ur domo gheyness and avc with ur "GOLD, BABY" phrase. Wow feels like just yesterday doods. Playing with you for the past 3 years have been a blast. TBH pwn annoyed me, lol. However, AVC, I respected you tons man. Just can't beleive. But what's done is done. Good luck in your new clans guys. Appreciate the effort you guys have made for the past 3 years. You both were great assets to the krew which will definitely take a huge hit later in the future due to the lack of your presence, but the krew will survive.

Personally, I think you guys should grow up. How does it make you feel when all these 13-20 year olds are acknowledging the shit you guys just made. Seriously.

 

[TheDude]

I'm actually really glad this came out. I had been working on either a retirement post or a PM for the senior staff, just hadn't proceeded so this makes it easy.

Here's the story. After Afghanistan in 2010, I started playing on S1 with Caveadsum, Brian, Blu and Damage and the others. Fun bunch of people, and for about two years it was great.

I put a huge amount of effort into the krew and progressed from mod, super then admin and it was fun. I was dedicated to building this place out; I recruited lots of people, made donations, organized events like profile competitions and other events. Basically did my best to help YOU, Walter, build out your clan. It was fun for about two years. Lots of laughs. (The whole reason I play COD and hung out here)

Then, starting around a year ago Wally starts publicly berating me in the shout, ignoring me, leaving me the staff admin out of key decisions. Even started a little clique called "Executives" happily leaving me out. It turned into a very unfriendly environment yet I stuck it out for a year hoping things would get better. It didn't

After a while his behavior really got old but I was just waiting to see if he'd talk about it like an adult but instead it was just this steady stream of bullshit like this in the shout: (Wish I had screencapped more of them. It was almost daily)

It's really difficult to be enthusiastic and supportive of an organization who's founder treats you or others like this.

So, Joint Forces Krew stemmed out of the unfriendly environment YOU created Walter. I just hadn't gotten around to retiring my position yet.
I was planning on 20 April 2013 as a departure date. We'll have to move that up a bit.

You can blame yourself Walt for creating the conditions for this decision. You should have had the common decency and maturity to at least talk to me about why you were conducting yourself that way so we could work things out and move forward.

Anyhow, we go hot on 20 April with servers on both Atlantic and Pacific coasts of the US already online. May even stand up servers in the EU and Australia.
Recruiting on gaming sites begins in April and we'll see how that goes.

Don't blame the others or Andy. I put the idea out there so this was my thing alone.

Not sure where you got the whole "Pro" clan thing.
I only ever just wanted a fun, friendly place to hang out and play games as friends.

Anyhow, exactly as I said in my introduction 3+ years ago, "I will stay with the krew as long as it's a fun and friendly environment."
Well, it stopped being that a long time ago so we're done.

Best wishes to you all. It was mostly really fun.

Greg

So say in the shout to wally,

"FU, you treat me like shit, I want to go make my own clan."

Dickhead.


Somehow, I knew you would come out of this talking about how you were the victim. Obviously, there are people here who respected you (and thought you respected them) and thought they had some kind of kinship with you. You call yourself intelligent and decent and yet you completely disregard your responsibilities to them, little as they may seem.


I mean, of course you could just not care.....

but that's what makes a dickhead a dickhead.

 

[Rival]

Pwn.
Why do you think everyone treats you like shit?
Because you treat everyone like shit.

I pity the people who are stupid enough to join your "clan".

 

[TheDude]

That's actually a really nice post Dan and I appreciate a lot.

I'm really sorry for my past mistakes but I do think we could have worked together to resolve any issues and avoid them in the future rather than have things turn out this way.
I never even heard about complaints about me and tried to be nice to everyone but sometimes stress and anger from other sources (like fkn work!) come out in unproductive ways and I'm sorry about that.

Most of the past 3 years was a hilariously fun time to me mostly due to wally's funny ass lol.

But I'd still like to play on the servers and be in the forum as a guest if that's ok.
we can still laugh together right?

You didn't try to work out the problems. Show me evidence of one time when you thought you were right but backed down and tried to shut the fuck up and learn something about cod4 and moderating? Where you tried to talk to people who were WAY more experienced in the game and how to play it and just learn shit from them?

You just stop at a point where it makes you uncomfortable and get all pissy and refuse to compromise. Almost as if there could not POSSIBLY be something out of your grasp in call of duty 4.

Just from my experience alone, getting banned by you countless times.... even just counting the times when I had concrete PROOF that I was NOT hacking..... it only makes me wonder how many people who weren't krew members (and didn't have the leverage I had as said krewmember) just got banned under the radar and were never heard from again. How many potential server regulars or potential members, now considering our dwindling size and server traffic....

I'm just saying dude. It's like the whole time it's everyone against pwnsauce... but it's NOT. It's like xepher and damage said,

basically,




How many times do you need to be told something from all these people before you'll believe it?

Simple things:
-Don't ban people just for being disrespectful to you when you are in a bad mood.
-By the number of bans you have had overturned, you should realize that either you need to change your judgement or doublecheck with someone who has a good track record.
-Don't fuck with blu and religion/politics in the shout. It makes him angry at you. This is probably why he gets angry with you more often.
-If you don't know how to ban someone the way you're supposed to do it, don't do it....... In other words... follow protocol... when you don't, it has caused problems in the past.
-When everyone tells you "it's not hacks," IT"S NOT HACKS. It's not like in all of these countless cases, you just saw something no one else did.... or it's all a conspiracy against you and everyone is hacking?




But it's not that we hate you. It is this quality that is so freaking obnoxious and troublesome that we give you shit about it....





Like in this case, you had many options available to you. One of them was your first post in this thread could have been something like "I'm sorry, this was a misunderstanding" (assuming what you say is true, and you DO give a fuck), and then we could be like, "we're sorry for making you feel like you had to leave. We we're probably kind of dicks, too."

Instead you basically say in the first couple of sentences, "well this worked out nicely, didn't it?" <--- Did you read the thread?

I did. I did not get the idea that this worked out nicely.


I just expected better of you dude. Kinda makes me wonder if I should have, though.

 

[theGenius]

well pwn, i never disliked u around here and never judged your moderating, u were always fun to talk to. but leaving like this? reallly? didnt see that one coming.

Einfach so abhauen...das macht man einfach nicht Mann!

 

[AVC]

I should point out that Wally never treated me badly.

Sure, there were server decisions that were made that were for the good of the Krew, which meant I din't play S1 (A1) anymore. But that didn't affect my forum interaction. If games were on LA servers and I was playing, I was there.

It was hard with Greg's situ, he was in a different boat. I could see he was basically going to start thread in the quitters section. If the JFkrew was going to work, I didn't really want to see it as an opposing force to the Krew. Hell, I wouldn't have even used the word krew. Maybe crew. And I don't think a "new" COD4 clan is viable. The game is getting too old.

So, ideally, Greg would have left, started his new JFclan with Black Ops or whatever and been a friendy ally to KKK. But I guess Greg wanted to recreate the Krew. It's his website, it's his server. I never felt I had to leave KKK. I didn't want to leave. Greg is my friend though and I wanted to support him, but I didn't want two COD4 clans at once.

It was like the Rock and a Hard Place thing.

What I'm saying is I didn't want to undermine the Krew. Hell, I was still helping out with shit only hours before I was cut loose.

 

[Finch]

It's like the more details I hear about all this it makes me more sad how everything ended up now...
This may sound really really childish but I thinks at least for me it describes the situation here best:
Last week the Krew was a sunny place but now (and it will hopefully end in the next days) it's covered by dark rainy clouds..

 

[BluBirD78]

I'm thinking this thread is nothing but "I fked you so please forgive me" lol, at least that's what it sounds like to me. I know people will say calm down about it and all that shit, but when someone screws you over like these guys did what do think is going to happen, seriously? Am I going overboard about being mad about these two ADMINS doing this to the Krew or what? Hell I'm not even a Mod or very active any more but it sure as hell pisses me off, if you want me to cool it then I will but it's pretty fked up what they did...

 

[SteelHorse]

To me personally I feel as if its their loss. I think they have screw themselves majorly. What kind of person would leave this Krew after being here as long as those two have and put as much effort into making things run as they do. It just baffles me in a way. To think that both Pwn, an admin, and AVC, an executive, would do this. It makes no sense to me. Especially to go as far as they did without telling anyone. They are just stupid imo to think that they will be able to create a better place than this. They fucked themselves over, and i think they are going to regret it if they don't already. It really does suck though that y'all didn't go about this in a better way. Wouldn't have ever thought that either one of you would do something quite this retarded. Y'all and what y'all did is just sad imo.

 

[DamageINC]

I'm thinking this thread is nothing but "I fked you so please forgive me" lol, at least that's what it sounds like to me. I know people will say calm down about it and all that shit, but when someone screws you over like these guys did what do think is going to happen, seriously? Am I going overboard about being mad about these two ADMINS doing this to the Krew or what? Hell I'm not even a Mod or very active any more but it sure as hell pisses me off, if you want me to cool it then I will but it's pretty fked up what they did...

Nope. Personally i don't understand all the sympathy avc is getting, but that's just me.

 

[Madeinkorea]

I'm with bred, I didn't really want to get in this thread.. This honestly surprised me a bit. I never really saw pwn or avc as bad people.. I don't really agree with your guys decisions but as previously mentioned, thank you guys for your support and donations to the krew and I will miss you both. (I will obviously stay with the krew of course.) ~Korea

 

[TheDude]

I'm thinking this thread is nothing but "I fked you so please forgive me" lol, at least that's what it sounds like to me. I know people will say calm down about it and all that shit, but when someone screws you over like these guys did what do think is going to happen, seriously? Am I going overboard about being mad about these two ADMINS doing this to the Krew or what? Hell I'm not even a Mod or very active any more but it sure as hell pisses me off, if you want me to cool it then I will but it's pretty fked up what they did...

No blu. It's not overboard to be angry.

It's overboard to take shots at personal character and just flame flame flame, which you didn't do.

And I think if Pwnsauce REALLY wanted an actual discussion, we could have just hopped on teamspeak. But he didn't.

I think he just wants his own clan.

AVC on the other hand, does seem to feel bad about this. And he's in a shitty point in life.
I think the fact alone that he acknowledged his mistake is enough. We like the guy, and we'll get over it.

However, Pwnsauce not only kept the freaking krew a secret, but is using the name "Krew" which he in NO WAY coined.
I mean it REALLY is childish. And coming from me, that should be a big sign.
The fact that he said "well this worked out nicely" is a fucking slap in the face, too.


The reason AVC is getting sympathy is because he didn't come back on and act like a complete douchebag.

But I mean weeks before you told us? And DID you even tell us? Or did it just come out?
It's not that hard to understand. You both fucked up. Take some responsibility.
The little kids here are going to flame no matter what. It's not gonna stop. We can ask nicely and expect people to grow up over night, but it's not gonna happen.

 

[AVC]

... if you plan on leaving, MAN THE FUCK UP! The last thing I'd like to see/hear is someone jumped shipped dishonorably.

.

OK, while we're Manning The Fuck Up, let me say this.

First there is nothing dishonerable about leaving, peeps leave. We've seen it happen many many times. A lot of peeps also get flamed which is unnecessary.

I hadn't even made the decision to leave.

But, Walter, I consider you a friend, regardless, and I'm sorry that you've gone off the deep end. But maybe you could man up and reply to my PMs or email. Or reply here.

It's easy to punch someone in the face. Especially when you only have to do it with some meme. It's much harder to apologise for punching them. THAT's Manning The Fuck Up

I'm sorry that you thought I was trying to split the Krew up. That was never my intention, and still is not my intention. Even if I had made the decision to leave, I would have stepped down. Maybe you should read my wife analogy reply to Dee's post (and no, it doesn't mean I want to sleep with your wife).

 

[WaLLy]

I replied to your eMail. Cant deny the Google cache.

And yes, I understand peeps leave. I expect that. What I don't expect is a co-owner starting a new clan 2 months ago, and to try and lure some of our own Members. That's the knife kill.

If it was just PwnSauce that went on his way, it wouldn't have hurt so much. I didn't expect it from you, Andy - that was the dagger.

Anywho, this thread will be closed soon. We need to start moving on..

 

[Kessa]

FREE PUNCHES!!

----> wn: <----