Good job America!

TheDude

Dudesicle
|K3| Member
That's funny. I think it would be helpful to look at some statistics. Like, for instance, the fact that almost 0 crimes are prevented by gun owners, almost 0 people annually use their firearms to protect their family.

Where what's on the table is not taking away people's right to own guns. It's banning assault rifles (not generically, they would be specifically listed) and large magazines, and also requiring thorough background checks for anyone wishing to purchase a firearm (as a federal mandate). I am fairly sure that everyone who wishes to own a gun could live with that.

No serious movement is taking place now to ban handguns or simple civilian weapons (such as double-barreled shotguns and hunting rifles).

In fact, a shooting took place at the beginning of this year in a school in baltimore in which the shooter was stopped only because the only weapon he could secure was a double-barreled shotgun. After shooting 2 people, he had to reload, at which point an unarmed teacher tackled and disarmed him. Had the shooter had access to an assault rifle, such as the ones used in both colorado and connecticut (AR-15), the shooting would have undoubtedly been much more horrific.

Now, does banning assault weapons mean that no one will ever be able to get them? No. There are already more than 300 Million guns in the USA (documented). That is almost 1 gun for every single person in the US. However, will banning assault weapons SERIOUSLY cut down on the ability of people to get such weapons in the USA (even on the black market)? Absolutely. If these weapons are banned, manufacturers will certainly make less and certainly ship less to the USA. They will also be easier to locate and regulate.

Now where do these children get most of the weapons used in suicides, homocides, and the like? From people who have registered guns that are not secured properly (at this point this includes assault rifles, as those are legal).

Does regulating guns have an effect on gun related violence? Yes. Period. Look at Australia's history with gun violence and how they have managed it. For 17 years leading up tho their drastic reform on gun control, the homocide and gun violence rate grew higher and higher. During the 10 years following their reform, almost no homicides were committed with guns in Australia, and gun violence, in general, has continued to drop rapidly.

It is estimated that gun violence can cause in excess of one billion dollars for states every year.

I see absolutely no reason not to seriously give thought to serious gun control reform in America.


I agree whole-heartedly with the central idea of your post, Steel, and I am very grateful that you took the time to write it. And I agree with HiBred, too. Take time in life to realize that all things will come to an end. So practice compassion, and savor every moment, as best you can.
 

BluBirD78

Master of BluballZ
|K3| Member
It's banning assault rifles (not generically, they would be specifically listed) and large magazines, and also requiring thorough background checks for anyone wishing to purchase a firearm (as a federal mandate). I am fairly sure that everyone who wishes to own a gun could live with that.

I completely disagree with this statement for two reasons, one I own one of those so called "deadly" weapons that have large magazines and I don't want my right to own one taken away because of something that SOMEONE else did, that is wrong and you should know it. Two, you start drawing the line on our second amendment and the question is, where does it end? They will start with banning assault rifles and large capacity mags "for your safety of course" until someone goes on a shooting spree with just a semi-auto handgun and guess what, how they will want to ban all semi-autos. It's a very grey area and it would start the picking away at the second amendment until there would be nothing left of it, at least that's how I see it...
 

TheDude

Dudesicle
|K3| Member
I completely disagree with this statement for two reasons, one I own one of those so called "deadly" weapons that have large magazines and I don't want my right to own one taken away because of something that SOMEONE else did, that is wrong and you should know it. Two, you start drawing the line on our second amendment and the question is, where does it end? They will start with banning assault rifles and large capacity mags "for your safety of course" until someone goes on a shooting spree with just a semi-auto handgun and guess what, how they will want to ban all semi-autos. It's a very grey area and it would start the picking away at the second amendment until there would be nothing left of it, at least that's how I see it...


The line is already drawn all over the place. That is what the supreme court and the judicial system as a whole does. That is one of the primary purposes of that branch of government.

Take, for instance, your First Amendment rights. These are some of the broadest in the constitution. You have the right to freedom of expression and speech. Does this mean you can go into a hospital and scream into a bullhorn about making abortion illegal? Nope. Is that line a part of a slippery slope towards banning free speech altogether? Nope.

The reason is that we as a nation have the power to draw these lines. That's what democracy is.

The second amendment wasn't written to give people the right to own an arsenal for private use. It was written so that state militias could be organized and trained and ready (in the absence of a serious USA military, which obviously is not a reality today) to fight some kind of Tyranny from our own government or some outside force. It also wasn't written in the days of Ak47's and Uzis. Those dudes had to reload after every shot! And the bullets didn't even go straight! The entire concept of war and protection was different then. In 2000 years, do you think those words in the second amendment will have the same relevance they do today? What if we all started taking the bible literally? We'd be stoning to death women for adultery and sacrificing animals.

And I state again. Just look at the numbers. When they ban assault rifles (of a certain kind), crime rates and gun homicides go down. Pretty much across the board. When they require thorough background checks for everyone, crime rates go down, and illegal/private sales go down as well. Less guns come into the USA from outside (civilian weapons and USA military knockoffs).


Why do you need an assault rifle and a large magazine (such as for fully automatic pistols and assault rifles)? When has anyone in the USA actually gotten their AK47 out to save their neighborhood from a shooter? Last time I checked, the last time some "neighborhood watch" dude pulled out his gun, he shot and killed a young unarmed black man who hadn't committed a single crime..... but oh well, guess he looked suspicious.


Also, a ban on assault rifles wouldn't necessarily mean you couldn't shoot one. There are plenty of ideas on the table such as authorizing legal firing ranges to keep under heavy security certain assault rifles to be shot under supervision at the range (for a fee, of course).

Just talk to the cops, too. They see this shit every day. They come into direct contact with the sort of people who get their hands on these guns for the wrong reasons. They also see all the kids who pick up daddy's handgun that wasn't locked up, or somehow they got it anyway, and either kill themselves or someone else. My friend committed suicide with his dad's handgun. Who knows? Maybe if he couldn't just get his hands on that gun one drunken, depressed night, he would have gotten help and would still be alive today.


We're talking lives here. Human lives.
 
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Nikon

カメラマン
|K3| Member
America is a free country, we shouldn't have to arm ourselves to the teeth to feel secure. But pointing back to Steel's topic, it is a problem within the hearts of people. A change of laws will not help, what we need is a change of hearts.

What are the gun laws like in Switzerland?
 
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Arcani

Second Lieutenant
Former Krew Member
can this thread just get locked already? as people have said - u guys dont know how people around here have been feeling the last week knowing little 6 year olds have died so if u want to bash america at least have the decency of it being cuz of a differnet problem with us
everything that happened was just barely an hour away from me so it effected people around here alot more - i doubt the parents of the kids that died would love to see all this
gun laws may need to be slightly stricter but how the hell will that change anything? as alot of people here have said - criminals and all those people will find another way to get a gun or another way to kill, we dont make te weapons too strict cuz then people are less safe

rival how would u feel if this happened around ur area?
i just dont want to see u guys talking bout the people that died cuz people are still deeply hurt all around the us. especially on the east coast so just bash something else im tired of everything im seeing here

especially at this time of year...supposed to be a happy time of year, and kids that loved this time of year more than any1 else have just been killed, how are the parents going to be this christmas?
just want this thread locked already so i dont have to read anymore of this on the kids, its hurtful and disrespectful...just have some decency please

thank you - and sorry for copying stuff every1 have said
 

Ethan

Captain
Former Krew Member
Watch this for explanations and clarification guys:

 
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TheDude

Dudesicle
|K3| Member
The reason the brady law didn't work is because people can just go buy guns in other states and bring them into their own.

The other problem is that it didn't require background checks for private sales, purchases, or manufacturing (such as at gun shows, which is where a large portion of assault weapons can be purchased)

So while some laws get passed, the NRA gets their fingers in them quite quickly, making it impossible for the law to be effective. What is the result? The NRA has gotten people to believe that no legislation will prevent gun crime. When this is completely false.

Also, I forgot to mention, no one is saying that assault rifles would be banned completely. We are talking about banning the sale, purchase, and manufacturing of them. This means all you goons with ak's can keep them. The goal is to cut down on the number of assault weapons that come into america, and make it harder for people to purchase them.


So what this guy says about science is kinda false. The universe has no opinions, it simply is, therefore "science" should have no opinions. However, statistics and studies can be and are heavily manipulated to prove a point. Just look at any number of the so called "studies" the Tobacco Institute has done in the past 70 years.
 
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VoX

Twat Hammer
dont think they should be outlawed or anything, but damn it is easy to get ahold of an assault rifle.. and if i was mentally unstable they wouldn't know.. so, UH OH AMERICA..

i also heard the media blame it on violent video games and movies!!! you cod players are scary
 
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TheDude

Dudesicle
|K3| Member
The ATF collects data on what guns are used in what crimes (and lots of other info about the guns, where they came from, and such). However, due to and NRA proposed bill passed in 2003, the ATF is legally prevented from sharing such data with any organization. The reason for this should be obvious.

Also, the NRA grades politicians. Like gives them actual grades that are publicly displayed. Based solely on how those politicians benefit the NRA.


And the media in itself shouldn't be blaming the violence on anyone.

Hard facts show what is really going on. Obviously, though, the NRA is bent on preventing such hard facts from being displayed.
 

Ethan

Captain
Former Krew Member
The problem is not the guns. It is within the criminals which use them in horrible ways. Taking guns away from the correctly credited and those with no bad intentions is stupid. Just think, in the United States years back, almost everyone either had a gun or a knife, and they never though to use them in bad ways (at least less than the present). The value of human life continues to deteriorate as time goes on.

Rules will not solve this problem...I don't think anything can nowadays.

Criminals ARE criminals because they break rules...if they want a gun to do harm, then, in most cases, they will get that gun.
 

DamageINC

K3's Useless Admin
|K3| Executive
It just happens to be incredibly easy for them, or anyone , to get those guns. I think that's the point.
 

TheDude

Dudesicle
|K3| Member
You stubborn Americans should give the Metric system a chance.

Anyone who is legitimately involved in hard science uses metric here. It makes more sense. Of course those who collect and analyze aggregate data for public release will use standard system. Just makes sense, as the public was taught standard. Weird that they call it standard, though, seeing as how less than 10% of the world uses it.

- - - Updated - - -

The problem is not the guns. It is within the criminals which use them in horrible ways. Taking guns away from the correctly credited and those with no bad intentions is stupid. Just think, in the United States years back, almost everyone either had a gun or a knife, and they never though to use them in bad ways (at least less than the present). The value of human life continues to deteriorate as time goes on.

Rules will not solve this problem...I don't think anything can nowadays.

Criminals ARE criminals because they break rules...if they want a gun to do harm, then, in most cases, they will get that gun.

There are more guns in the USA now than there were years back, and I am having trouble believing almost everyone had a gun back then. So what happened? There was just some large movement for everyone to get rid of guns? I think not. It is more easy to manufacture and sell guns now. Companies like Beretta specifically do military contracts with the intent of making their real money on public sales (such as with the 9mm, which replaced the m1911 as the military standard years back.)

However, no one is seriously talking about banning handguns or even banning the possession of assault rifles. The movements by law enforcement communities are more geared towards banning the sale and manufacture of Assault rifles in the USA. There will be nasty people, messed up people, whatever you may say. Taking a stance that "bad" people must change and not our policies on controlling the tools they have access to is a losing game.


Criminals are by definition "criminals" because they commit crimes (which I guess is what you were meaning when you said "break rules"). However, people who avoid taxes and steal patent information are also criminals. So they shouldn't have guns? All I'm saying is it's a lot more complicated than there are bad people and good people and we should just remove the bad ones from society. Seems a lot more arbitrary and scary than banning assault weapons (from the standpoint of being afraid of tyranny and the kind of social justice seen in soviet era where millions of people just "disappeared"). I think we'd be much more upholding the constitution by limiting guns and giving people mental health help than to simply start labeling people as evil and sending them to the Gulag. In terms of equal rights and defending the rights of the little guy, that is.

I mean, you can't legally drive some cars on the highway or road..... including indie cars. I don't see millions of people bitching about that. Seems much more benign than an AR-15. The reasons are for safety. I don't see people like "DAMMIT! I want my constitutional right to drive my Indie 500 car on the friggin highway!" Like, sure, most people who drive racecars on the highway aren't going to get people killed, but some are, and that's the problem. Same deal here. And there is nothing in the constitution that says you have the right to own any weapon. Guns are already heavily regulated in some states. Like, for instance, I can't just go get an M60 for "target practice" or "self defense." And for good reason. Who the fuck needs that gun? Just like assault rifles, it is made to kill people, do it efficiently, and then do it many times.
 
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Rival

Double Nature
Former Krew Member
Anyone who is legitimately involved in hard science uses metric here. It makes more sense. Of course those who collect and analyze aggregate data for public release will use standard system. Just makes sense, as the public was taught standard. Weird that they call it standard, though, seeing as how less than 10% of the world uses it.

Yes, that's very weird. I didn't even know you called it Standard... I thought it was called Imperial... Isn't it? :confused:
 
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