Guns.

[NickHouston]

Some of you will say you hate them.
Some will say you love them.
Some of you own them but some of you call those people crazy.

Can we all just agree on one thing? STOP F****** LYING ABOUT THEM.

This video in particular shows the extent some anti-gun people will go. They will try to scare the crap out of ignorant citizens with lies about the guns and their functions.

These *EHEM* 30 caliber magazine clips for your illegal automatic military sniper weapon scope can shoot 30 bullets in just .5 seconds! And all you need is access to a drill press!

People actually believe this. And it's time to stop spreading lies about stuff just because you don't agree with it.

He even goes as far as to demonize EVERY human being who owns guns as some sort of psychopath.

If you wanna spread facts and "statistics" be my guest. But outright lies? Get out of the public eye.

 

[Take]

Seems typical USA to me, they also said one hit of the blunt makes you gay.

 

[The Moment]

A gun is only as deadly as the untrained and unstable person that wields it.

Accidents happen that should not happen (tend to arise from being untrained) and people think that they have been wronged and so they have to take revenge (rampage killings).

Get a grip on life, don't kill people, and learn how to protect yourself.

 

[Take]

Get a grip on life, don't kill people, and learn how to protect yourself.

Do you really, really think all the thugs, rednecks and other dumb people the USA is rich of will just agree to this/work along with this? Do you really think that? It's the dumb people that can't/won't handle guns. As we all know the USA has a lot of these dumb people. Therefore, eliminating guns would be a good option. But that's against USA democracy.

 

[The Moment]

Do you really, really think all the thugs, rednecks and other dumb people the USA is rich of will just agree to this/work along with this? Do you really think that? It's the dumb people that can't/won't handle guns. As we all know the USA has a lot of these dumb people. Therefore, eliminating guns would be a good option. But that's against USA democracy.

I don't think that eliminating a constitutional right is good. Regardless of what people think, the right to bear arms against enemies both foreign and domestic is granted in our Constitution. Dumb people are granted all rights under the Constitution. It's not even close to fair to those who aren't dumb to take away their rights because others can't handle them.

The statement that thugs, rednecks, and other dumb people in the USA will abuse guns completely misses the fact that they break the rules regardless. Eliminating guns takes guns out of the hands of law-abiding citizens more than those who misuse them. If you think that that's not true, look at illegal drugs. Regardless of your stance on drugs, in the USA, people ignore the laws on the books that make narcotics illegal. The exact same thing happens with guns. You can get illegal items into the US through several means, so saying that eliminating guns would solve problems is basically foolish.

I despise Europeans for stating that the US has so many dumb people. The US is almost HALF of the population of the ENTIRETY of Europe. Of course there are dumb people. Dumb people exist everywhere. You cannot isolate your own country and claim that if the United States was run like your country it would be much better. The fact is that the US is so much more diverse in culture than most individual European countries.

My statement, "Get a grip on life, don't kill people, and learn how to protect yourself," isn't anything that can be enforced. It's a mentality. Americans feel particularly entitled to their own feelings, and having someone tell them to change their feelings is never well received.

TL;DR: Taking away Constitutional rights hurts those who obey the laws more than those who don't. People will find ways around the laws, regardless of how they are enforced (thus is human nature).

 

[HIBred]

lets get this straight once and for all:
Gun Control is about REGULATING guns not taking them away
second amendment so often quoted says "a well regulated militia..."
making them traceable as possible in this world is a good thing imo.. checks and licenses should be at least as hard a getting a drivers license...there will always be the criminal element and crazies fucking shit up for everyone else...that being said I believe responsible people should (and still can) own their own weapons.i wish i could own one ..
As far as I know,the laws being put forth that everyone is getting all nuts about are mostly about background checks and large magazines or full auto,I'm not certain so a translation of the bill would be nice to read and explain so the nutjobs can't just inflame each other over some well needed laws that wont even take away their guns....Just make it a bit harder
I would love to own a least 1 or 2 pistols,1 shotgun and a good rifle, an assault rifle would be fun to shoot

I need more info on the actual bill or action being

 

[NickHouston]

Do you really, really think all the thugs, rednecks and other dumb people the USA is rich of will just agree to this/work along with this? Do you really think that? It's the dumb people that can't/won't handle guns. As we all know the USA has a lot of these dumb people. Therefore, eliminating guns would be a good option. But that's against USA democracy.

Eliminating guns only means taking the legal, registered guns from law-abiding citizens. The vast majority of guns used in crime are already illegal to begin with. Be it illegally purchased or illegally modified.

 

[HIBred]

Here's what the Obama administration plans to do:

• The federal government will issue guidance that will narrow who can sell guns without a federal license, based on an evaluation of the circumstances surrounding individual gun sales. The idea is to reduce the number of for-profit dealers — as opposed to collectors or people who only give or sell guns to family members or friends — who avoid background checks, whether they're at a store, at a gun show, on the internet, or anywhere else.
• The FBI will hire more than 230 more people to help run background checks — an increase of more than 50 percent to the current staff. Lynch said this was in part needed to keep up with rising demand. "We're looking to improve the efficiency and response time of the system," she said.
• The government will also require background checks for people who try to buy restricted firearms through a legal entity, such as a corporation or trust. People were able to avoid background checks in the past through these entities.
• The Department of Health and Human Services will finalize a rule regarding health record privacy laws to remove barriers to states providing mental health records to the background check system.
• The administration will enforce tighter rules for reporting guns that are lost or stolen on their way to the buyer to make it easier for law enforcement to track down missing firearms.
• Federal agencies will encourage and fund more research into technologies that can make guns safer, largely to reduce the risk of accidents.

In addition to these measures, the administration will continue pushing Congress to pass tighter gun control laws, and to direct more funds to enforcing existing gun laws and to mental health treatment.




sooo... yah nothing about making guns illegal or storming into homes and taking guns...

 

[NickHouston]

lets get this straight once and for all:
Gun Control is about REGULATING guns not taking them away
second amendment so often quoted says "a well regulated militia..."
making them traceable as possible in this world is a good thing imo.. checks and licenses should be at least as hard a getting a drivers license...there will always be the criminal element and crazies fucking shit up for everyone else...that being said I believe responsible people should (and still can) own their own weapons.i wish i could own one ..
As far as I know,the laws being put forth that everyone is getting all nuts about are mostly about background checks and large magazines or full auto,I'm not certain so a translation of the bill would be nice to read and explain so the nutjobs can't just inflame each other over some well needed laws that wont even take away their guns....Just make it a bit harder
I would love to own a least 1 or 2 pistols,1 shotgun and a good rifle, an assault rifle would be fun to shoot

I need more info on the actual bill or action being

I'd be fine with making guns harder to get, such as a driver's license where you have to prove you can safely operate a vehicle before driving one.
As for magazine capacity; there is no real practical reason to ban standard and "high" capacity magazines. If my or my family's life is threatened, I want as many rounds as possible to stop the attacker(s). Criminals do not obey laws so this law would not apply to them. And also, to "tackle" someone as they reload you'd have to be VERY freaking close (5-10 ft maximum) to even reach them before they reload.

 

[The Moment]

Here's what the Obama administration plans to do:

• The federal government will issue guidance that will narrow who can sell guns without a federal license, based on an evaluation of the circumstances surrounding individual gun sales. The idea is to reduce the number of for-profit dealers — as opposed to collectors or people who only give or sell guns to family members or friends — who avoid background checks, whether they're at a store, at a gun show, on the internet, or anywhere else.
• The FBI will hire more than 230 more people to help run background checks — an increase of more than 50 percent to the current staff. Lynch said this was in part needed to keep up with rising demand. "We're looking to improve the efficiency and response time of the system," she said.
• The government will also require background checks for people who try to buy restricted firearms through a legal entity, such as a corporation or trust. People were able to avoid background checks in the past through these entities.
• The Department of Health and Human Services will finalize a rule regarding health record privacy laws to remove barriers to states providing mental health records to the background check system.
• The administration will enforce tighter rules for reporting guns that are lost or stolen on their way to the buyer to make it easier for law enforcement to track down missing firearms.
• Federal agencies will encourage and fund more research into technologies that can make guns safer, largely to reduce the risk of accidents.

In addition to these measures, the administration will continue pushing Congress to pass tighter gun control laws, and to direct more funds to enforcing existing gun laws and to mental health treatment.




sooo... yah nothing about making guns illegal or storming into homes and taking guns...

I was only responding to Take's statement about taking away all guns being a good thing.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but small steps happen before you realize how far you've fallen. I don't know where I stand on this, aside from the fact that Executive Action oversteps the boundaries of the President.

Edit: If you're at all worried about the NSA and the government having data on you, then you should likely be against registering firearms. The government does not need to know about my business.

 

[Take]

I was only responding to Take's statement about taking away all guns being a good thing.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but small steps happen before you realize how far you've fallen. I don't know where I stand on this, aside from the fact that Executive Action oversteps the boundaries of the President.

Edit: If you're at all worried about the NSA and the government having data on you, then you should likely be against registering firearms. The government does not need to know about my business.

I ment eliminating guns would be good, I never said that had to be done. Since democracy is what I believe in it would be not right to take the guns from the americans. However, as stupid as they are it would be a GOOD thing if there weren't any guns there at all.

 

[Kreubs]

lets get this straight once and for all:
Gun Control is about REGULATING guns not taking them away

sooo... yah nothing about making guns illegal or storming into homes and taking guns...

Yeah that really worked out for the German people in the 30's...

 

[Garycheese]

I don't see the need for guns tbh they are illegal here in the UK and nobody ever has a legal need to use them or want to own them.

I understand the view of Americans who say that they have them for the need of protection due to the high amount of guns in the country it's needed for protection against those willing to enter your home wielding them and you have to do what you can to stop criminals with them,

But if they where banned and seized then there would only be a select few that have guns and eventually they would either get caught with them or end up dead in a gun fight then there would be 0 - very little amount of guns in circulation that could be easily monitored.

 

[Take]

The whole protection thing is kinda silly IMO. If someone wants to kill or harm you in the USA they would be stupid to do that with the fists. So either knifes or guns. But when someone starts shooting/stabbing you it's really hard to pull out a gun, aim and shoot while you're being shot/stabbed.

 

[theGenius]

i wouldnt want guns to be sold that openly here in europe, and i dont have a need for a gun here. but if i live in the u.s.a i´d want one aswell.

also, its not as black and white as legal or illigal. people always say guns are illigal in europe, but thats not true, any mentaly healthy person can get a hunting licens and along with it a gun licens. you can also join a marksmenclub and get a licens. you just cant buy them as randomly as in the U.S. if i remember correctly i think about 1 in 10 has a firearm even here in europe.

so my advice to you over in the U.S.A is, protect the freedoms you want to have, but dont go batshit if assault rifles arent sold like candy in the supermarket anymore.

 

[PrestoN]

Hey, it's a good thing Dutch people don't have easy access to guns, wouldn't want those idiots running around with them.

Yup, that moronic statement runs both ways.

Anyway, guns are neat, I support them. But can't really be bothered either way seeing as I don't own any.

 

[mmnz]

you'd think strict gun law would be a small price to pay if gun related homicide goes down even a little bit and its kinda backward how people claim they need guns to protect their families yet those guns kill their families in school shootings, just saying canada has strict gun laws and significantly less gun related deaths

 

[NickHouston]

you'd think strict gun law would be a small price to pay if gun related homicide goes down even a little bit and its kinda backward how people claim they need guns to protect their families yet those guns kill their families in school shootings, just saying canada has strict gun laws and significantly less gun related deaths

Canada also has much less things that lead to violent crime.

In America, we have a ton of poverty, non-living wages, shitty living conditions, non-rehabilitating prison systems, lack of jobs for non-violent criminals.

I don't know everything about Canada and I'm sure there are some places like this. But our government is pressured to NOT help the needy as some see them as "lazy". Your government, from what I've seen, helps it's people no matter what.

 

[PR3C1Z10N]

Do you really, really think all the thugs, rednecks and other dumb people the USA is rich of will just agree to this/work along with this? Do you really think that? It's the dumb people that can't/won't handle guns. As we all know the USA has a lot of these dumb people. Therefore, eliminating guns would be a good option. But that's against USA democracy.

To be certain there are dumb people that own guns. There are also dumb people that own cars, computers, and hair spray. It is the criminal element that is the biggest problem. Sure, there are idiots who shoot themselves on accident or look down their barrel, but the most damage is caused by routine gang violence and turf wars. Gang's in the U.S. are a cyclical process, and it's not easy to get out of the cycle. Dumb people can have smart kids.

I own a firearm, but I have no problem with proper regulation of firearms. By regulation I don't mean that I would give mine to the gov if they were to say semi-auto shotties were illegal. I do think that background checks and the likes should be performed. After all, you can't just buy a car and drive around without a license plate.

Besides...every American secretly wants a Red Dawn scenario to happen.

 

[MikeK]

Yay, another gun thread! Long-awaited! Let the fight begin!

I'll just adds couple of thoughts.

1. From some statistics that I have seen, assuming that they are not too fucked up, in one year, there were like 11.000 people shot dead in the US while in the same year there were like 200 people killed in several European countries, Japan and Israel combined (I never counted but those countries have at least like 2 to 4 times the population of the US). This means that there are approx 110-220 people shot dead in the US per one casualty in the other democratic and economically-developed countries.

That's 11.000 human lives EACH YEAR; almost 4 times as many killed people as in the 9/11 attack. That's 30 people EACH DAY.

Finally, just for fun, I multiplied 11.000 by 80 years (something close to an average life length), and got a figure of 880.000. If you then split it by 2.500.000, roughly the population of the US, you get an astonishing 3,5% chance of yourself being shot at some point in your life if you live in the US for 80 years (obviously, it's much higher in ghettoes than in NYC business centers, but any way).

2. I see your "protection" point. But I seriously doubt that guns do more good than evil. Like, do at least 11.000 or more people, mostly young women or older people and other weak and innocent citizens who are mostly in danger, save/protect themselves by using guns each year? Or are they more often shot by mentally handicapped people or robbers?

I do understand that many Americans perceive this right as protecting them and do enjoy this feeling or just want to have some fun legally shooting some stuff at a shooting range but is this semi-fake feeling of being protected together with the wish to have some fun worth a 11.000 lives a year or a million and 100.000 lives each century?

If guns, in fact, harm more than help (and that's pretty apparent if you look at the US-EU death ratio) than this "right" is definitely something that violates the No.1 MOST IMPORTANT human right - the right for life and health, and anything which violates this right must be eliminated at any cost.
[DOUBLEPOST=1452120285][/DOUBLEPOST]

I ment eliminating guns would be good, I never said that had to be done. Since democracy is what I believe in it would be not right to take the guns from the americans. However, as stupid as they are it would be a GOOD thing if there weren't any guns there at all.

Well, democracy is not about multiple rights clashing with one another, it's when the most important rights (i.e. The right for life and health) go first. Everyone has rights, but everyone must not violate the rights of the other people.

An easy example: I have the right for free speech. Nevertheless, I have no right to run around calling people ni**ers and inviting everyone to kill the ni**ers. There's not a single right which isn't limited. If you are dangerously ill, you are isolated despite you right for freedom. Equally, IMO, the run to posses a gun must be severely limited or excluded in order to protect the most important rights.