Spawn Campers and the Dilemna

PORKY_PIG

Private First Class
Greetings,

I would like to throw my two cents in on spawn camping, spawn kills, and consequences. The never ending battle on a crowded server is the control of people relentlessly killing at the spawn. It is a continuous battle and neverending saga that not any one person has yet to solve. There have been several approaches to the sickness:

1. Ban them and lose your server population because at least 30-40% participate in the practice.

2. Continuously warn them and threaten.

3. Temp Ban or Kick them from the server for a short period of time.

Gentlemen, none of the above work in my opinion. On a crowded server such as S1, there will be spawn killing of some sort. Now please do not get your feelings hurt when I say my next statement. I, as well as you, have spawned killed players. I see KKK players spawn killing just as much as those that you are constantly complaining about. I do believe that it comes down to the defintion and the obscurity in its meaning. Is it spawn killing or spawn camping that we wish to rid ourselves of? And, is there a real difference other than the spawn killer can discreetly gather the cheap kills as opposed to the radical spawn camper?

I do have a suggestion for those on a higher paygrade than myself. The reduction in spawn killing must be set by example. It is not a good precident to set for KKK members to even occasionally be able to spawn kill and then turn about face and put such strigent commands on others. It does not hold any value.

On another note, calling the spawn campers out with vulgarity does not hold up well either. This just makes them more resistent to what you wish for them to do.

In conclusion, there is no accountability for continuous spawn campers. They are occasionally booted but more times than not come back to do the same thing repeatedly. I have a suggestion of banning oblivious spawn campers, and others immediately. The bans can be lifted every 15 days. This would help to see if the lesson was being learned. The hackers stayed banned. The temp banned players have learned that their crime is payed for in a few short hours.

As I stated earlier, spawn camping has been a dilemna since the beginning of multiplayer gaming. To some extent, we all do it. You would be lying to say otherwise. I actually do not know if there is a solution to the problem on S1. It actually is not a big concern to me, but I see that it is to others and I wish to be part of the solution to the problem.

Porky
 

DamageINC

K3's Useless Admin
|K3| Executive
Spawn killing on s1 can't really be avoided and doesn't bother me.

Spawn camping is totally different. I have banned quite a few habitual, continues spawn campers. If they receive a 15 day ban, that would make it quite hard on Wally since he's the one who would have to comb through the ban lists and unban. Also, how would they know it's only a 15 day ban? We would have to make up new binds and what not.

The system is not perfect, but i think the mods and admins do a pretty good job. It will always be a never ending battle, but we have already rid the server of quite a few repeat offenders.
 

517Houston

|KKK| Gaming Legend
|K3| Member
The mods and admins do a decent job when they are actually on and willing to do the job.. The daytime staff (EST) is virtually non-existent at times.. For instance 1600 hrs today for almost a 1/2 hour, no mods came to s1 when we had a hacker. People were leaving in disgust and frustration. Now it showed a few mods online but none were watching the shout. I have several mods on Yahoo, they never answer there either.

The practice of rude, disgusting binds need to end as well.. Telling spawn campers that they are going to be kicked banned and anally raped is a bit on the obscene side. We have children in here and our members should set some kind of standards. We've all been guilty of stuff like this in the past

Cursing, swearing is actually allowed in our servers and some mods have been kicking people for it calling it disrespect. If a mod cannot handle some harmless name calling or swearing he needs to be removed. It's not a mods job to make the rules up as they go along.

If mods are in the servers they need to be ready to mod the servers. If there are 3 mods in there, they need to take turns so they can play as well, HOWEVER, if the "on duty" mod is not paying attention or stepped away from the screen for a few minutes the other mods need to step up. I was actually told by a mod last week (after reporting the same couple guys at least 5 times each) that he is playing this game and so and so is the mod, and if so & so dont get them it'll have to wait till next game when he is modding. Came down to nobody got kicked and 2 douchebag sc's went away laughing at our krew once again..

The 15 day ban that Pig proposed is a damn good idea. It should be implemented. So a bind or 2 may have to be changed, or maybe Wally would have to assign someone to keep a list of the people on that list to make it easier to unban them after the 15 days. We have all these admins and super mods, time to utilize them is some other ways as well..
 

The Moment

|K3|Recruit Admin
|K3| Executive
Along the point of namecaliing Houston, there are times when people go too far with their names. For instance, I was modding S1 earlier and a guy came in and camped in several known camping spots. One person began deriding him for camping calling him a "camping asshole", "piece of shit", and so forth. I explained to the namecaller that camping was allowed but not spawncamping. All this time I was watching the camper closely. He did not spawncamp once. The namecaller "politely" told me to "Shut the fuck up" and began fabricating lies about him spawncamping. All this time he was using obscenities and unnecessary language. I then told him to quiet down or I would kick him and he told me to shut up cause he didn't think I had the power to do that. This is when I kicked him for disrespect.

Not only did he disrespect me, but he did so to a rule following player whose play style he didn't like. I understand your point about nonchalant kicking, but there are just times where action must be taken.

I am sorry that we mods can't be on every second the server is running. I'm sure the Aussies and Asians that play on our server get annoyed that no mods are on when it's midnight or later here.

We do our best.

Momentum
 

Dizaster

Master Sergeant
Former Krew Member
Like Damage said spawn killing is different than spawn camping. Spawnkillign is unavoidable and cant be helped. Now to address your idea. A 15 day ban wouldn't solve anything either. People will not wait 15 days to [play a server again simply put they will just move on to another server. thus leaving us with ur 1st scenario you stated in the OP. Also another thing is that Mods that are on i've notice just sit afk on the server not doing anything to stop hackers other general nonsense. and what does this lead me to suspect? they only mean to appear like they are indeed doing something when they aren't. it kinda irritates me to log on after a hacker complaint only to find a mod just sitting afk in spectator mode all the while a hacker has run rampant on the server.
 
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DamageINC

K3's Useless Admin
|K3| Executive
Houston, i don't know what you're on about saying kids are on and the binds are out of line.

I've seen you play with countless names such as vaginal blood etc. I've also seen you numerous times calling people cunts etc etc while playing. I think that falls under "rude and disgusting".

And unless you have specific names and times that these things the mods have supposedly done or said, don't bring up. Quite frankly i think your full of it or bringing up an example of something that happened one time.

Having Wally go through all the ban lists every 15 days wouldn't solve much and cause extra, unnecessary work and time. I would say 90% of them wouldn't come back.

Mods can't be online 24/7 to answer every shout and IM. Just because it shows someone logged in doesn't mean they are at the PC.

I do agree however when some mods are playing they seem to ignore spawn campers at times. If you want to be a mod, that duty should come first regardless of if you're playing or not.

I've never seen a mod make up the rules as they go along. Some will interpret them a bit different then another but their is nothing wrong with that IMO.
 
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WaLLy

Lieutenant General
|K3| Executive
We'll never get rid of all the spawn campers unless we make every player in our forum a Moderator, and we all know that's not gonna happen. The solutions that are being mentioned in this thread all sound good for the most part but there will always be a flaw somewhere.

Sure we can add more Moderators but even if we do, there will always be a time where none of us will be around for a while. It looks bad on our part because it seems like we're not moderating the servers but I can honestly say comparing to other servers, our Staff does a fine job moderating 'em, even with some lack here and there.

Porky, you should know that the ban lists contain only GUID's and player names. Banning spawn campers for 15 days sounds like a good idea but it's gonna be a hell of a task that I honestly don't have the time to do. If there was a separate ban list for the spawn campers than I'd be all over this option like a fat kid loves cake. Basically spawn campers get mixed with hackers in the ban list and in order to go through the ban list to unban a couple players, the staff has to record the banned SC'ers name exactly as it appeared when he banned them, if he doesn't then I can't unban the person. Sucks but that's the way it is.
 

Goss400

|KKK| Member and Official post whore
Former Krew Member
Like commodore has mentioned in the past we might need to get mods from different areas
for instance J-Kelly wouldnt be bad as a mod seeing hes in a different time zone than most Americans, cent0 wouldn't be to bad either seeing that hes Korean
sure we'll never have a mod round 24/7 but we sure can lower that time where no mods are around
thats my view
- |KKK| goss -
 

WaLLy

Lieutenant General
|K3| Executive

Goss400

|KKK| Member and Official post whore
Former Krew Member
OK
maybe a different australian
do we have any Asians here?
NoMercy maybe?
 

Dizaster

Master Sergeant
Former Krew Member
Another odd solution would just be to permaban spawn campers after one kick + warning, This may seem like a harash policy but just an idea.

I do see a few problems with it though. One some mods may not be able to properly determine who is actually spawn camping.

Two, it may cause people to leave, but on the otherhand we would just be clearing the scum of the server anyhow.
 

The Moment

|K3|Recruit Admin
|K3| Executive
Dizzy,
I can see that getting out of hand very quick. I know our mod staff is good about dealing with spawncampers, but a perm ban that soon would give our server a bad reputation. Even if the person was spawncamping like a jackass, they go and tell friends on different forums and they go tell friends on different forums and so forth. Lying is the thing we can't control.

People will always claim that they are not spawncaming. I have dealt with this and I'm sure most mods have dealt with lying spawncampers.

That's all for now cause I gotta eat dinner :p I'll post more later.
 

517Houston

|KKK| Gaming Legend
|K3| Member
It'll give our servers a bad rep? Are you really saying that? Seriously? And allowing these asshole spawn campers and dealing lightly with them is boosting our rep?

Another incident today.. Members reporting spawn campers, Mod totally ignoring members and other players and just kept playing.. This happened for 2 games straight that I know of.. Mods if you aint gonna do the job then friggin quit
 

SiloHunter

Condescending little prick
|K3| Moderator
Spawn killing is fine, you see someone pop up, and kill them.
Spawn camping isn't that good, but as said previously there is no fool proof solution.
What about spawn killing where you just circulate through 5 or so spawns just running around killing at each spawn. It is like spawn camping because you get a ton of kills for the work of running in a circle instead of standing still. Is this illegal too? And how would you prove they were doing it, as soon as they are accused they follow a different pattern. I have seen it before, they run in big circles around the map and when they come to a spawn they scope in on it and keep walking, then they get a kill and run away.
It is something hard to moderate, but it happens and it needs to be moderated.
 

Goss400

|KKK| Member and Official post whore
Former Krew Member
maybe i can ask people to join up at the forums around my time zone to deal with the hackers if they become mods
I'm not being selfish but maybe i could make a good mod if J-Kelly and NoMercy arent around much
 

The Moment

|K3|Recruit Admin
|K3| Executive
@ Houston:
If you read what I wrote you would know that I'm saying that perm banning after just a warning and a kick would decrease our reputation. Again, temporary bans work as far as I can tell and the super mods have banned several habitual spawncampers. I write all my temp bans down and in the section where I report, I will say "Needs a perm ban". The thing is that normal mods aren't allowed to perm ban them. And that's not my choice.

Also, perm banning so quickly will confuse many players who do not understand english. There have been many people who have come on the server and started talking with funky lettering. These people would be confused by a perma ban and discouraged from using our servers.
 
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