WWII discussion

Caveadsum

The Merchant of Venom
|K3| Legend
Britain could've had the chance to bust those german asses.
1) They had plenty enough foreign colonies ready to join there ranks.
2) The tide in Europe was turning. Hitler became insane, resistance became stronger, some German generals were planning an assault on Hitler, others became cowards and commited suicide or ran away.
3) Some of the only airplanes that could challenge a Messerschmit were the Spitfire and the Hawker.
4) Russia left the axis.

So Britain only needed some more time because, I admit, USA had a lot more punch.
They had a great Navy too, but the drawback was the fact that the German Wolfpacks dominated te seas around them. But they owned the Bismarck hard, didn't they?

But I'm glad USA and Canada joined in. Especially Canada, because they liberated my town.
But guys, you can't change history. We are thankfull that they came to aid us. But we are also proud of our European soldiers who died or survived, giving everything for the freedom of everybody.

First things first.
1) What could the British colonies do? Their forces in Africa were tied down fighting in Egypt (which granted it is possible they could have completely defeated Rommel alone) Australians and other colonies in Southeast Asia and in the Philippines were fighting Japan and things weren't looking up.

2) Hitler did indeed suffer a defeat in the Battle of Britain resulting in Germany giving up any plans of invasion. Despite this however the German Navy was very strong. It was wreaking havoc on British shipping, and with a little more pressure it could have mounted an effective blockade which, carried on for long enough without American intervention, could have starved Britain into at least withdrawing from the war. I don't believe Hitler was insane. Yes he did terrible things namely, the Holocaust. I think that he thought he was doing the best thing for the German race, it was evil but does that make him insane? Was Stalin insane because he did the same thing even on a grander scale? As for assassination attempts, for the most part his generals only began to plot after it became clear to them that they were fighting a losing war as a result of Anglo-American victories. Most famous of course would be the July 20th plot of 1944, but attempts like these were not being carried out by German generals during the Axis victories up until around 1943.

3) Yes indeed the Messerschmidt could only be challenged by the British fighters, which is the precise reason that England survived the Battle of Britain.

4) The attack on Russia was a colossal blunder on Hitlers part. Historically that was to be one of the decisive blows to Germany, however consider the situation proposed earlier. America remains uninvolved, and the Kriegsmarine can keep Western Europe relatively safe allowing Germany to transport the cream of the army to Russia where they could keep pushing and eventually would overwhelm the Russians. Now keep in mind that the reason Germany lost in the Eastern front was: 1) The Germans came without most of their tanks and artillery in their rush to destroy Russia. 2) With fighting in North Africa, then Sicily and Italy, and later Normandy, The German army was too occupied in the West to provide the support necessary for victory in the East.

Now I submit to you that this situation would be disastrous to England. Left without any hope of support from the continent, and having to cope with the ever increasing pressure from Germany and it's allies, England would not have gotten stronger but weaker. Despite the indomitable spirit of the English people they would have eventually been battered into submission having in all likely hood lost their Pacific holdings to Japan, and North Africa to the renewed efforts of Germany after the defeat of Russia. Germany would have been stronger than ever effectively ruling Europe. They would have increased the quality of the Kriegsmarine and the Luftwaffe resulting possible in the destruction of the Royal Navy and RAF, and hence England itself.
 

BluBirD78

Master of BluballZ
|K3| Member
Re: WWII discussion just for Commodore_H

Damn Cav, where did you copy and paste that from, hahaha :p
 

DamageINC

K3's Useless Admin
|K3| Executive
I think the main reason Germany was defeated in the east was the Russian winter. I believe it was the worst winter they had suffered in some 40 years, and the Germans were ill equipped to deal with it. Since they were fighting a war on two fronts, their supply lines stretched very thin resulting in many troops freezing and starving to death. Hitler put emphasis on fuel and ammunition over cold weather uniforms, while the Russians had warm coats and fur hats. Another problem they faced was the fact that they had to keep their tanks and vehicles running 24/7 to avoid the gas and oil freezing up. Because of this they ran woefully short on fuel since their factories were being bombed constantly and the fact they were stretched to thin. Hitler needed to conquer Russia so he could take the vast oil fields in the Caucasus. The Germans got to within 40 or so miles of Moscow i believe before the winter hit. They were also very few paved roads for the German tanks to operate, and with the thin treads they possessed many got stuck in the mud. The Russian T-34 however, had wider treads and could deal with the mud much more effectively. Many German weapons and artillery pieces also seized up and failed in the sub-zero temperatures. The Germans also vastly underestimated the Russian's tenacity.
 

Caveadsum

The Merchant of Venom
|K3| Legend
Yeah Damage I forgot to mention "General Winter" the most effective weapon of the Russians that saved them from both Napoleon and Hitler. But my point was that Germany would very likely have defeated Russia as Europe was fairly safe under German control allowing for sufficient forces to be transported to Russia. See the winter was terrible but it only lasted a few months. Once it was over they could have brought up enough troops, especially more tanks and artillery. With enough Panzers, they could have overwhelmed all of the Russian T-34s. German factories would also have still been operational and pumping out more war materials since the Luftwaffe would be still bombarding England keeping the RAF too busy to go on the offensive. So this still means very bad news for what's left of Europe without the Americans.

Commodere_H, I'm not saying the Americans could have done it themselves either. All I'm saying is that we were necessary. We still needed Britain and Russia to win, but without us Europe was essentially in deep shit.

And Kaptein_Guus, wrong category bro. ???
 

DamageINC

K3's Useless Admin
|K3| Executive
Yea i know what your point was, I just wanted to share my small bit of knowledge on Operation Barbarossa.
 

DamageINC

K3's Useless Admin
|K3| Executive
I'm not crazy cav, I would never go against your Stewey sized brain.

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